Injectors in the new TGP

god910 · March 24, 2004, 07:57:11 PM

Well, I finally got around to pulling the upper intake on the new TGP and replacing the injectors. A few interesting things were found: Being as I know SHIT about the part numbers on different things my injectors that came out of my J/Y TGP motor were labeled 17089569 also the rail looked like all other rails I had seen (Sunshine, my Cutty, etc.) The injectors that came out of the new TGP had 17086981 and the rail had a shnazzy ass MPFI logo and said Rochester Products underneath, along w/ a "Made in the USA" logo. I have another set of injectors that came out of sunshine, but I couldn't get to them as of this writing, mainly because I'm about 5 min. from going to bed, and I'm in my manties. I will check those tomorrow and post again. Another thing I noted, that is VERY noteworthy, other injector people chime in on this one, as it is quite interestine... Upon pulling the injectors from the rail/lower plenum, I noticed the O-rings were HORRIBLY cracked and overall in absolutely unnaceptable shape. Later I went back to them to take pics of how the p/o had installed the injectors w/ bad o-rings, THE O-RINGS WERE FINE!!! Clearly, there not fine, but there was NO acknowledgeable problems. They look just as good as the injectors I pulled out of the J/Y motor. I can tell you this, based on the finding I obtained, I WILL change injector o-rings from now on. Even upon closer inspection they seemed OKAY! They were quite brittle, but you couldn't see the cracks at all. I guess I could go ahead and tell you guys that after ohming, I had 3 bad injectors. 2 on one side, and 1 on the other. 10.9 on one, 7 on another, and 9 or so on the last. So it looks like this was the problem. I hope to be able to use the injectors from the J/Y TGP, to get me by until I am happy w/ the rail mounts. The P/O had also not installed the injector clips on 4 of the injectors. Interesting stuff. There also was a piece of electrical tape (vinyl tape) wrapped around one of the injectors at the lower intake around the O-ring. I don't know if it was an accident (it was right where the wire loom meets at the #1 injector) It could be tape from the loom, but it looks to perfectly situated.

Jeff M · March 24, 2004, 08:32:13 PM

Lots of getting into it, my kind of wrench turner 8) . My records show old injector number was 17086981, and brand new the same :shock: So the one with the wrong injectors might be the reason for running problems, good thing you did not hammer a car not running right 8) , occurs to often too some :roll:. Had a TGP I worked on for a month, was in Chicago and bought for cheap, but me and the owner had to spend 90% or our efforts to un-do the previous fixes, and one was the injectors were the wrong ones, very small ones that someone used in hopes to fix the rich running/unknown to them cracked crossover pipe problem, good thing too he did not hammer test it! Sounds like you too had to fix other's fixes :evil: not that it helps you any but seems common to have to do this on our babies.

Good luck.

Jeff M

turby · March 24, 2004, 08:46:40 PM

Manties... :rofl:

Jeff M · March 24, 2004, 09:07:25 PM

Quote from: redturbo90Manties... :rofl:

Wellll, I thought it funny too but did not want to think about it too much :moon:
:lol:

Jeff M

Tooky · March 25, 2004, 12:54:44 AM

Quote from: Jeff M
Quote from: redturbo90Manties... :rofl:

Wellll, I thought it funny too but did not want to think about it too much :moon:
:lol:

Same here!!!

So tell us Jay, how big of a job was replacing the injectors? I know I'm going to have to pull that upper intake manifold at some point on one of my 3.1 MPFIs (turbo or not) and I'm fearing the worst. Are new gaskets necessary? It does not appear like something you can easily remove without disconnectin g a bunch of other things.

maximage · March 25, 2004, 08:40:34 AM

New gaskets are necessary, but very cheap(I think $12 for the set). Changing the injectors is easy.

Jeff M · March 25, 2004, 01:10:19 PM

Quote from: TookyCatI know I'm going to have to pull that upper intake manifold at some point on one of my 3.1 MPFIs (turbo or not) and I'm fearing the worst.

You always do :roll: (think the worst) quit beating on your car/other TGPs owner's car, its nothing as compared to swapping injectors on your Sy :shock: . Some tricks to make it easy other than that, just a little time but no nasty work so quit fussin like my woman :lol:

Jeff M

god910 · March 25, 2004, 02:46:05 PM

It really is pretty simple, and I think I paid $6 or so for the Fel-Pro gaskets for it. (Upper intake gaskets and T/B) Get some hose and a 90* fitting for T/B bypass, it makes it easier after that. There is one bolt on the back of the intake that you can't see and wouldn't imagine it being there. It holds the plate that holds the plate that holds the MAP and Evap. solenoid. (You heard me right!!!!) :lol: People make it seem like a big deal to unhook the T/B, but it's really not, as long as you don't break vacuum lines.

Fel Pro MS93610 $5.98 (Advance Auto Parts)

Jeff M · March 25, 2004, 04:24:01 PM

Nice detail god910, IF that FelPro is that nasty metal with rubber seal I would suggest OEM/GM instead :!: , know too many guys who could not get a good feel of tightness even with a torque wrench and even bent/broke off one of the upper intake ends :cry: :cry: . Even when tightened proper/snug, found later the rubber seal had split :evil:
OEM is paper and it seals always, no water there so no sweat! GM Part Number 10104430 at about $6 for the pair.

Jeff M

Tooky · March 25, 2004, 10:09:48 PM

Wow, that doesn't sound so bad at all. I guess I got all apprehensive about nothing. Glad to hear it is not an impossible task.

Changed injectors on a friend's Syclone and it was not so bad, didn't even require removing the upper intake manifold or TB like some said, we took our time and removed the TB/UIM anyways to clean the gunk and we spent probably 3 hours on the entire job taking it easy.

Jeff M · March 25, 2004, 10:46:03 PM

Quote from: TookyCatWow, that doesn't sound so bad at all. I guess I got all apprehensive about nothing. Glad to hear it is not an impossible task.

Changed injectors on a friend's Syclone and it was not so bad, didn't even require removing the upper intake manifold or TB like some said, we took our time and removed the TB/UIM anyways to clean the gunk and we spent probably 3 hours on the entire job taking it easy.

KEY there was you took your time 8) 8) Know to also take your time to get loose the PVC from the rear valve cover and when fishing it through as you lift off the upper intake, some juggling with the 4 way vacuum lines there too! I really like the mention of the hidden rear bolt, good point!!! Careful with the MAP U-shaped holder, bugger to get back on, and makes you mad if it pops off and drops down. Lift up easy on the MAT sensor connector, easy to crack this heat soak brittle plastic tab! I used the existing 90 degree rubber elbow to re-route the TB coolant hose, into a TB Bypass trick, though you won't like it not giving you much gains :lol: . Spray something like contact cleaner at the injectors when in the lower intake, then blow out the sand there that you dissolved the oil from with the cleaner, saves sand falling down into the lower intake :shock: That should be about it, take your time so its a acceptable experience.

Jeff M

Jeff M · March 25, 2004, 10:47:33 PM

SO JAY, did you ever get your pants on and get to work on your car, or are you a nude wrench tuner (never mind, I don't want to know!).

Jeff M

god910 · March 27, 2004, 05:04:06 PM

Yeah, I finally got my manties off and into my clothes. I went to the parts store and they had a WAY different part number and couldn't even find the orig. number in the book. He didn't seem so sure I knew what I was talking about, but I have 3 sets of injectors w/ the same part number. I'm wondering if that's not another part they took from a V-8 or something. It wasn't listed under ANY V-6. I put the odd number (17089569) injectors in and the problem is all gone. I drove around all day today. (I need this car as a daily driver so I can do a whole front suspension on my Cutty) My only problem is it's still not that fast. I drove it last night and it was faster than today, I hit the boost cut a few times. Today I can barely get it to build much boost at all. (Stock boost gauge, but it works, and shows to just the 1st or 2nd line) My turbo doesn't whistle like the one on sunshine, and I KNOW it's in better shape than Sunshine's. I just don't know what to think. It's still fast, but I was expecting much more.