Started STE up after 3100 topend swap...OIL EVERYWHERE!!!

dbtk2 · August 14, 2004, 10:49:28 PM

I don't have all the coolant lines on but I started up the car to make sure it at least ran before I got it completely put together. (and because my grandfather was telling me there was no way it was even gonna run after everything I changed, so I was proving him worng). I let it run for about 45-60 seconds and it was starting to idle down. (got down to about 1400) Even at 1400 I can tell the difference in the cam. I also noticed it had more oil pressure then it did before. Anyways, I shut it off because i did what I wanted to do. So I get out and hear a fast dripping noise, I look under the car and there is oil ALL OVER THE FLOOR. I pull the dipstick and it was dry. (just what I want when I'm trying to break in my new valvetrain) I don't understand it. It appears to be coming from around the starter area, which makes a little sense, because thats the only thing on the bottom of the car I touched (took it off because I thought I was gonna have to drop the pan to change the cam until colin (v6h.o. on the 60 degree forum) informed me otherwise). Well, does anyone know anything around that area that could get easily cut or something. I mean, the oil only came out when the engine was running, it stopped when I shut it off (except for what was running off the frame and things like that). That makes me think it must be a pressure line or something. I can see some hoses around there, but cant tell which one and I don't want to start the engine up 2+ quarts low on oil to see where its coming from and I don't want to waste 2 more quarts of brand new oil (although I might have to).

All I can say is its a good thing I decided to only run it for a minute.

Any ideas...as you can tell, this is a MAJOR problem. Anything is better than nothing. I need to drive this car!

Thanks,

Shawn

no1kicker · August 14, 2004, 11:15:38 PM

Isn't the oil filter right above the starter? That's the first thing I would check.

SpeedDemon · August 15, 2004, 12:01:02 AM

Quote from: no1kickerIsn't the oil filter right above the starter? That's the first thing I would check.

I agree with no1kicker, check the oil filer to make sure its tight enough. Just curious, you did change all your gaskets (although I don't think that would make the car leak that bad)?

skalor · August 15, 2004, 08:15:03 AM

Did you have the turbo off...maybe you forgot to reattach the turbo oil return line? :?

dbtk2 · August 15, 2004, 02:00:39 PM

The leak is about 1" to the left of the oil filter if looking at the side of the block from the front of the car. Right around the area that the oil return line goes into the pan. I can't tell if it is the oil return line or other lines in that area, but it APPEARS to be leaking from there. I didn't touch any of those lines though, thats why its kinda weird. How exactly does the oil return line connect to the pan...I can't exactly tell.

All the gaskets are new (believe me, I spend almost $500 on them, the gaskets are DEFINATELY new), and YES the oil filter is on the car and it is not leaking at all. The oil filter is dry.

Thanks,

Shawn

R Dubya · August 15, 2004, 07:19:42 PM

I know that you probably know this, but I just tore my engine down and did a total rebuild, there is a gasket between the oil pressure unit and the block, then the oil cooler goes on, and there is also an o-ring on the shaft that attaches them to the block. The return line attaches to a metal drain tube that winds it's way towards the turbo from the pan. Assuming that you removed the timing cover there is a requirement for some rtv at the base gasket and the timing cover.

That's a few of my thoughts, and also rear main seal and rear cam seal? Don't forget that gasket or you'll be pissing oil everywhere.

TGPilot · August 15, 2004, 11:37:51 PM

Quote from: Ryanand there is also an o-ring on the shaft that attaches them to the block.

Was going to be my suggestion after reading the post. 8)

dbtk2 · August 15, 2004, 11:45:04 PM

Quote from: RyanI know that you probably know this, but I just tore my engine down and did a total rebuild, there is a gasket between the oil pressure unit and the block, then the oil cooler goes on, and there is also an o-ring on the shaft that attaches them to the block. The return line attaches to a metal drain tube that winds it's way towards the turbo from the pan. Assuming that you removed the timing cover there is a requirement for some rtv at the base gasket and the timing cover.

That's a few of my thoughts, and also rear main seal and rear cam seal? Don't forget that gasket or you'll be pissing oil everywhere.

Where exactly is this? I have to take off the oil cooler and then the pressure sensor and there will be a shaft with an o-ring? Didn't know this. Where do I get the new o-ring. Could that cause it to leak THAT MUCH oil? Also, where is this RTV required that you are talking about. I put it on the bottom of the timing cover to seal to the oil pan gasket, but thats it...should I have put it somewhere else?

Rear main seal & rear cam seal...where are those? I never took anything like this off that I know of, shouldn't need to replace it I wouldn't think?

But my main question is, if you think that o-ring could cause that large of a leak, where is it at exactly and where do I get a new one?

Thanks, I appreciate the help,

Shawn

twinturbosedan · August 16, 2004, 12:11:23 AM

Quote from: dbtk2
Rear main seal & rear cam seal...where are those? I never took anything like this off that I know of, shouldn't need to replace it I wouldn't think?

Thanks, I appreciate the help,

Shawn

the only way to get to the rear main seal and rear cam seal is by taking the transmission & flex plate off...doesn't sound like the leak you have is coming from there...

dbtk2 · August 16, 2004, 09:47:40 AM

Quote from: TGPilot
Quote from: Ryanand there is also an o-ring on the shaft that attaches them to the block.

Was going to be my suggestion after reading the post. 8)

Also, is the something I did that would cause this to need to be replaced. Or do you think its just a coincedence? I'm pretty sure whatever is causing the leak is directly related to what I was doing.

Just wondering.

Thanks,

Shawn

TGPilot · August 16, 2004, 12:09:26 PM

I am not sure of the flow diagram for the oil cooler/filter mount, but I would be very confident to say that the shaft with the o-ring on the end is the main passage for the pressurized oil to return to the motor. Again it was said about the gasket at the cooler/block mating point. That will also flow alot of oil. I fought with mine for a good 2 hours to get everything lined up and sealed properly. When you put the shaft in place with the o-ring you will want to slightly coat it with a touch of grease or clean motor oil to ease the seating when you tighten everything down. If that gasket or the o-ring got pinched or not seated correctly I am sure you will get all the oil you are describing... 8)

dbtk2 · August 16, 2004, 05:18:32 PM

How do I remove that stuff to change that o-ring, and let me ask again, where do I buy the 0-ring at...nobody seems to know. I need to know how to remove that thing, because it wasn't the oil pressure sending unit...its coming from above that, so it must be this or something? The only thing weird about this is that I never removed any of this stuff, so i don't know why the gasket/o-ring would need to be replaced.

I really need to know how to do this, because its the only thing left...

Thanks,

Shawn

TGPilot · August 16, 2004, 08:00:07 PM

You could get the o-ring sized up at a hydralic hose type shop or even a hardware store that carries high quality rubber o-rings that are not hardened by petroleum products. That is if Pontiac dealers no longer carry that o-ring. I would check there (dealer) first. IIRC you need to take the oil filter off...then you will see the what looks like the head of a hollow bolt. That is the shaft we are speaking about with the o-ring on it. The bitch of this will be the fact that the two cooling lines (filled with anti-freeze) are not very pliable and will make your life hell getting it lined back up. Now again it has been a while for me...but I remember the oil filter mount...the cooling plates of the cooler...and then the sending unit housing all stack together and must be perfectly lined up for this to seal properly. The big issue I had was getting the gasket (oil-cooler to block) to not get in the way (sitting slightly off center on the shaft) when I was trying to get the stack to line up properly. Mainly the issue was because of the coolant lines being stiff. It will take some cussing and alot of beer breaks...but you will get it. :wink: Hopefully this is where the oil leak is coming from...CHECK AND RE-CHECK WHERE YOU THINK THE OIL IS COMING FROM! Might be something else...but the amount of oil you described...I think we are on the right track... 8)

dbtk2 · August 16, 2004, 08:18:40 PM

There really is no other place the oil could be coming from. If i took those coolant lines off, would it make it easier? The car has no coolant in it right now so it shouldn't make a mess or anything.

At first it looked like it was coming from the oil pressure sending unit, but after I switched that out I noticed that it was coming from above that. The only thing really in that area is this shaft you are talking about. Don't know why it would start leaking, but that must be what it is. I'll check one more time, but I think thats what it is.

Thanks again,

Shawn

R Dubya · August 17, 2004, 08:19:34 AM

Did you find your problem yet? There are a few oil passages down near the oil filter and sending unit, mainly the oil supply line for the turbo. It's the braided metal line that screws onto the turbo's supply lines. If you didn't remove the oil cooler and filter, along with the pressure unit, you shouldn't worry about that leaking, but double check the supply line and return lines, make sure that the return line is attached firmly to the oil pan.