Phenolic Spacer GB!

TGed · July 20, 2007, 12:41:17 PM

There is a guy over on a L-body site that is gaining interest in making a set of phenolic spacers for the 60V6 MPFI engines. He would need probably ATLEAST 10 for sure people to get in on this GB for him to make it happen. Cost of the product would probably be UNDER $80.00US. The guy originally designed a set for the quad four engines and seems to be making great progress. Some of you are probably going to ask, "Well how does this help our engine, what are some of the benefits?" . From what I know, the phenolic spacer will act like a heat barrier between the UIM/tb and the LIM. Less heat is always better in our situation (Heat soaking ftl).
Now if these engines were N/A and not FI, I would not even bother with this Group Buy. Reason being is that the MPFI runners are so long as it is, it'd hurt the top end (noticeably) even more for the n/a engine. Which that is the reason the higher the RPM we go the less power we make as it is. So making the runners longer is only going to magnify that problem mainly for a N/A engine like ours. Another question will probably be, "How thick are these going to be?". I would guess 3/8" is the size unless there is a clearance/alignment issue with that size.

Click Here

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong spot.

grinders_18 · July 20, 2007, 09:21:30 PM

So, a tthe risk of sounding dumb...what the heck is a phelonic spacer and where does it go??

pontiac6ksteawd · July 20, 2007, 09:54:47 PM

Quote from: grinders_18 on July 20, 2007, 09:21:30 PM
So, a tthe risk of sounding dumb...what the heck is a phelonic spacer and where does it go??

What he said...

TGed · July 20, 2007, 10:05:33 PM

Quote from: grinders_18 on July 20, 2007, 09:21:30 PM
So, a tthe risk of sounding dumb...what the heck is a phelonic spacer and where does it go??

That is not a dumb question at all.
The bake lite material spacer goes in between the LIM and UIM. The spacer would thermally isolate the manifold from engine heat soak, which will reduce the intake air temps.

Dark Ride · July 20, 2007, 11:49:36 PM

do we really need any longer runners, I would think the intake air temp drop would not be enough to risk losing more top end. thats like calling the TB heater bypass a performance mod, It really doesn't make enough difference. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it would be worth it, but IMHO I wouldn't spend $80 for them.

Edit: Not trying to rain on your parade

TGed · July 21, 2007, 01:23:32 AM

Quote from: Dark Ride on July 20, 2007, 11:49:36 PM
do we really need any longer runners, I would think the intake air temp drop would not be enough to risk losing more top end. thats like calling the TB heater bypass a performance mod, It really doesn't make enough difference. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it would be worth it, but IMHO I wouldn't spend $80 for them.

Edit: Not trying to rain on your parade

Like I said originally, this is definitely not for the n/a engines, but more for the FI crowd (like us) . The amount of heat soak vrs the extra 3/8" of runner length in my opinion is worth the effort to cool down intake temps.

Just a quick site to briefly read what this material is somewhat about...
http://www.sdplastics.com/phenolic.html

:-)

sleeperred90tgp · July 21, 2007, 09:07:23 AM

Spacer did 3 things for me. Reduced heat, more room under the UIM for the harnesses :icon_biggrin: and allowed my TB to clear the WG. If you run a bigger TB and intake pipe the spacer is a must. I used 1/2'' spacer and with a 2 1/2 intake it just clears the WG.

80 is a good deal. For the DIY the material alone 55 from grainger shipped. It's enough to make 4. About 3 hrs labor if you have a router and a ball bearing bit. From an N/C machine shop for 20 parts it's around a 35-40 a part ea. depending how they process the program, scan a gasket or go from a drawing that somebody would have to make.

Supplier wasen't grainger it was McMaster Carr. Sorry about that.

3.1 would be similar

The Master · July 21, 2007, 07:52:56 PM

Alright. If it's good enough for Jud then count me in please.

TGed · July 21, 2007, 08:49:06 PM

Quote from: The Master on July 21, 2007, 07:52:56 PM
Alright. If it's good enough for Jud then count me in please.

I'll email the guy doing the group buy.

To make sure EVERYONE knows this is for the 3.1 AND 2.8 MPFI's and NOT the 3100/3400's.

EDIT: The guy should be on here shortly.

Dark Ride · July 21, 2007, 10:37:36 PM

I guess I stand corrected, :icon_redface: Jud would know more than I would.

TGed · July 22, 2007, 11:20:00 PM

So whos 100% interested in this group buy?

Nukkinfuttz · July 23, 2007, 01:44:37 PM

Hey everyone!
Im doing the spacer designs. I would like say that we will need to get at least 10 buyers to go forward with this. Anything less, and the price per set becomes quite expensive. If we can get more than 10, the price per kit will drop further. So, worse case senario, 70 dollars shipped for the set. Money is not due until the list is fully populated. Then once the order is submitted for manufaturing, it could take another month before they are in each of your mail boxes. If all goes well, I will try to keep a few extras on hand so they will be available in the future.

Also, i would like to ask if there are any other little pieces or parts that would be cool to have. Im able to make a wide variety of items made from many materials, Steel, Aluminum, plastics, etc. If you would be intersted in seeing what I have come up with so far, please check out www.quadper4mance.com. and id love to hear any ideas you have for the TGP platform.

If yall have any other questions about the phenolic spacers, just ask. thanks
Shawn@quadper4mance.com

Nukkinfuttz · July 23, 2007, 01:48:35 PM

Oh, and here are some screenshots of the designs, these are exactly like the gaskets, but 1/2 inch thick Phenolic Bakelite.

TGed · July 24, 2007, 10:03:17 PM

Awesome cad work!

Styluss~Customs · July 26, 2007, 09:58:08 AM

Hey guys... I have not posted in a while, but I have a great group buy for you! Phenolic Spacers for the 2.8L and 3.1L engine! The gropup buy is actually taking place over on the Beretta Stuff forums.
This would be for mounting in between the head and the intake manifold, which would thermally isolate the manifold from engine heat soak, in turn reducing intake air temps. I have designed one in autocad, and have submitted it for quote.
It is using a material called "Bakelite", which is a canvas composite phenolic material. It is .375 (3/8") thickness, red in color. It will be milled out on a Water Jet CNC machine for high precision. once the order is placed, they should be to me in about 15 days, and then another 5 days at most to you.
I wish i could post a 3D rendering of it, but im using a different style of autocad, and i cannot render it. this style is only used to program the CNC machines, not really made for project sharing. At any rate, its very close in shape to the stock intake gasket, all holes will line up perfectly.

Please see here for more information: http://www.bstuff.com/index.php?showtopic=48827

dont be thrown off by the fact that the thread starts out as a group buy for the Quad 4 engines. On page 3 there are some pictures and more info. on the spacers for the 3.1L engine that you guys will be interested in.

If you have any questions, please feel free to hit me up!