How much HP could I expect from these mods???

[90TGP]

How much HP could I expect with these mods?

FDP Performance 62mm throttle body.
FFD under drive pully.
Plenum ported to match throttle body.
Plenum to lower intake gasket matched.
Lower intake to head gasket matched.
Jeff M. Cross-X pipe.
Jeff M. TopGun chip.
2 1/2" exhaust with dynomax super turbo mufflers.
Car Sound high-flow 2 1/2" cat.
K&N filter on turbo.
Port&Polish heads.
3-5 angle valve job.
New timing chain.
Either stock replacement cam, or a mild cam [www.w-body.com].
Either stock replacement or 1.6 rollor rockers.
Front mount intercooler.

[Jeorge]

I would say about 215-220 at the tires and 250+ tq
Just a guestimate

[GPChief]

I'd guess a little more - anyone have the "desktop dyno" :?

[1trucavalier]

the only mods that would truly give more hp is the chip for increased boost, and making your head more efficient.  IMO the BEST overal mod for this vehicle is to remove the 4T60

[skalor]

I don't really agree with you in that the best mod is to remove the 4T60.  It may be the best mod is relationship to driver control, but overall I would think that the 4T60 would be a better overall choice for the 1/4 mile.  In a manual tranny application boost cannot be built when lauching like in an automatic tranny.  I know that I have built up to 11 psi while on the line, and that was on a good boost gauge(autometer).  The reason for this is that the engine is under load in this situation.  In a manual there is virtually no load and therefore I believe that not as much boost can be made.  

While the Getrag HM282 is a very versatile tranny and has a good track record you also have to remember that not everyone wants a manual tranny.  I myself a few years ago couldn't imagine driving what is consider a sports car with and auto tranny.  That's why when I built my Jeep CJ-5 with a SB350 I used a T-176 4 speed manual against better judgement that auto is considered my most to be better for rockcrawling and offroading in general(too much footwork with a manual and when rockcrawling in a awkward position the last thing you want to do is to rock backwards).  That's not what made me make the switch from preferring manual to auto though.  I just feel that with an engine that has the torque and the power for a good launch that a manual is just not necessary.  If I ever owned a four cylinder engine I'm sure that I would want a manual though, besides the only four banger I really want only came with a manual tranny(1991 Cutlass Calais 442 W-40 or W-41).  

On the other hand a manual would be much preferred in a road course or autocrossing than an auto.  There are different reasons why both could be better than one another when it comes to different things.

[90TGP]

Boost can be made very easily with a manual. Just look at all the Supra's, RX7's, MR2's, Skyline's, turbo 240SX's, turbo Honda's running around.

The 282 tranny is about 100lbs lighter then the 4t60 tranny. It's better for weight savings.

[skalor]

I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that manual cars have more turbo lag than an auto car.  The torque converter is the reason for this.  So faster spool up time equates to reaching peak power faster and therefore a faster car, but the weight savings of a manual probably equals it out. :)

[Chris A]

This was a reply to the same kinda thread a couple of years ago. There are benefits to both trannys, and ways to make them both run well. I WILL STRONGLY DISAGREE THAT THE BEST THING TO DO TO A TURBO CAR IS INSTALL A MANUAL TRANSMISSION. But that isn't to say that the manual swap is a BAD idea.

--Previous Message--
: it's just that, a 5-speed seems so much
: more desirable than an automatic
: ecspecially with a turbo 3.1.
: ecspecially considering the Getrag
: 282 bolts straight up to the 3.1.
: i know C.Walker has that Cavalier,
: but a TGP (or any W-body) with a
: 3.1 turbo and 5-speed would just,
: well.....kick SO much more ass!!!
Really? I guess thats why all those Grand Nationals had 5 speeds. 5 speeds are only desireable by the enthusiast, not the regular driver. Which is why so few cars have them anymore.
:  i guess one reason would be
: that some TGP/Turbo STE owners
: would want to keep their car
: original considering sit's a
: limited production car.....but it
: could still be converted back to
: automatic considering it's just
: bolt on.
Not quite, there is a bit of wirirng that would have to change, and if you wanted it to run well a Blow off valve would need to be added. Then there is computer programming for the 5 speed.
and isn't the Getrag 282
: quite a bit stronger than a 4T60
: anyway? thanks for 'listenin',
: and any replies appreciated as
: always, thanks!
Believe it or not there is a reason to the automatic and the turbo. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of cars with a stick and a turbo. Being able to be in the gear you want, WHEN you want it is a benefit and FUN! However, consider this. With an automatic you get a little "slip" before the car moves. This is the stall of the torque converter. It allows the engine RPM's to jump up a little and get the turbo moving. In a stick car, there would be "lag" while the car is moving before the turbo would make power.
Now, during the shift in an automatic, you don't have to take your foot off the gas. Exhaust velocity doesn't drop, the PSI's stay high, and you get full power at the completion of the shift. With a 5 spd, the throttle has to close, causing a shockwave to hit the compressor and slow the turbo down. Exhaust velocity drops and it takes a little to get it back up after the shift. You could powershift but that is tough and not always realistic. Its also hard on everything. A blow off valve can reduce the effects of the compression shockwave, but velocities will still drop as the throttle closes.
An example of the benefit to slipping is in an article I read reviewing a couple of turbo cars. One was an Eclipse GSX (i believe a Gen I). Its 0-60 times were right around 4 seconds. This involved mashing the pedal to the floor, and dropping the clutch. On WET pavement, it actually got BETTER times. Down into the 3.8 range and in 1st gear. Why? The tires were allowed to slip and get the turbo going. Now, does this mean an automatic would have been just as fast, maybe-maybe not. But, for general purposes, the automatic turbo WILL do better than the 5 spd turbo. Even in race purposes, the automatic can do better than the 5 spd turbo.
Our cars are actually setup to have very little lag. Most of what you feel as "lag" (and the reason I put it in quotes) is in the chip to make the power feel progressive and manage the torque in the tranny. The 4t60 can handle the power, especially with the many updates available for it today. The 282 can handle the power, but the clutch will need to be grossly upgraded.
I had thought about putting a 5 spd in my TGP once. It would have been a very rare ride. But after considering all of the above, I decided not too. For one, I had a z24 and the clutch wasn't super strong for the torque NA 3.1. I didn't want a racing clutch because its a pain to have to work the clutch when driving around or in stop and go traffic. My car would be more than a drag strip hauler.
There is rumor that there are about 15 TGP's with 5 speed trannies. However, they are said to have a special Muncie tranny (HM 383?). Most of them were used as Nascar Pace Cars in 1989. I doubt anybody with one frequents this board.
Chris


[/i]

[turby]

Do those 15 you mentioned have 300 h.p.? Or was that the prototype only that had 300 h.p. with a 5-speed?

[Chris A]

I dunno. I have a picture of one hanging on my wall that is a prototype and is listed to have 300 hp. The picture isn't good enough to really tell any details about the engine bay. I don't think the 15 were prototypes, possibly Pace cars had sticks? This was a while back, and it was just a rumor that there were 15 "factory" cars with 5 speeds

[90TGP]

How did my port&polish post become a 5-speed post:?:

You mean this prototype?



305hp@4800rpm
220tq@3000rpm
5-speed Getrag
3.61:1 axle ratio [that would have been nice on the production model then the 3:3x]
0-60 6.3seconds
14.05 1/4 time.

[turby]

That's the one!  :rock:  i would love to find out where that thing is.

[idbeast]

:shock: A person needs to remember that the most important thing in bracket racing (1/4 mile) is consistency, you can go faster then someone but if he gets off the line and runs the same he will beat you every time!!!
I know of darn few people with sticks who are bracket winners!
I'm not knocking sticks, my SHO got me a 3rd place at Bremerton raceway, but I over reved in 2nd gear and lost. Also keep in mind that all top fuel dragsters run autos... I'm stepping down of my soap box now... :?

[Chris A]

Warning Warning Your thread has been hijacked!

I guess you mentioned 5 sp swap and we picked up on that not the P&P! :)

The 3.61:1 would be nice, but another reason is to help get it going. The 3.33:1 with the slip of the TC would probably put it about the same on that aspect.  

Bottom line pretty much  boils down to each his own. I think both are well enough, and unless your Curtis Walker, the only thing that makes a 5 sp better is it only has 1 clutch to wear out.

[TurboGTU]

COOL..idbeast has a SHO too. Well my brother HAD one(sold for college tuition, got another and sold it again for tuition). Bet you went thrugh one clutch disk already. My brother did. He also went thrugh one tranny. :twisted:  A ram air will get you into 15s.

Wait this ain't the SHO Forums....Wait this aint about the 5speeds. :silly:

THis was about the guess my hp after mods topic...

guess about 280 hp and 300tq. Any more guesses. :wink: