http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=130158226&dealer_id=&car_year=1990&make=PONT&distance=any&max_price=&model=GP&advcd_on=n&end_year=1990&min_price=&first_record=1&address=80538&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1989&=&color=&cardist=644
He says "1990 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX - turbo, #429 OF 3750"[/b]
wonder where he got the number "3750" for production number?
Shane
and this one says "1 of 2500 ever made"
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=128879402&dealer_id=&car_year=1990&make=PONT&distance=any&max_price=&model=GP&advcd_on=n&end_year=1990&min_price=&first_record=1&address=80538&search_type=used&advanced=n&start_year=1989&=&color=&cardist=961
Shane
Did you do a search for a 1994 Cutlass Convertible on there? :P
I guess the guy that owns the red one doesn't realize that these cars aren't worth anything. He's asking $9000 firm!!! :shock:
Sure, it only has 59K on it, but he'd be lucky to get 1/2 of what he's asking!! :lol:
Maybe someday though.
Let him ask $9k!
You own two of them, so if the values go up you win if you go to sell it!
Yeah, he probably won't get that much for it unless someone that never heard of TGP's just HAS to have it. 59,000 miles is damn good though. It's probably in like new condition, at least it looks like it.
Hey, the more power to him if he can get that much. 8)
We've had this discussion before and I for one believe he'll have a hard time getting $9K for it. He should be able to get a premium buck for it though. I considered selling my 90 Black TGP before and we went on and on about the value of these cars. We all have TGPs, of course $9K sounds like alot but you can't buy them anymore! The cars are worth what you can get for them. If you lower your standard and sell your mint low mileage TGP for $4500, then you gave it away in my opinion. If you get
$7500-$8K for your low mileage mint TGP then you're setting the standard of what these cars are and should be worth. I was offered $6K for my mint black TGP 4 weeks ago. I really considered selling him the car, but I hooked up with the SEGPA (Southeastern GP assoc) met alot of great people, showed my car at a local car show with them and really started to appreciate the car again. They were really into the TGP. I'm like "its just a TGP" other people are like "Shit that's a TGP" See the difference? Its the same difference in $4500 and $7500-$8K.
$9,000 firm? He knows the car's worth it...we should too.
I agree with Rick, sure right now its maybe not worth 9K but if we all boycott sales of tgps...
It's a matter of supply and demand. There just isn't a demand for mint low mileage TGPs. Even when ones do come up, like the one for $9K. I highly doubt that anyone will pay that much for that car. That's the reason why they sell so cheap. I know I wouldn't pay $9k for a TGP, but that's just me. :wink:
It's a neat idea that we might be able to drive up the price of the car, but what about establishments that don't know of the TGPs existance. I got another TGPs about a month ago, and I paid $2800 for a nice Black '89. The bank that financed my loan runs value assessments as standard practice to verify the value of the car. They called me to tell me that my '89 Grand Prix was not worth $2800, and that I should consider looking for a new car. Now, upon looking at this TGPs it's the nicest one I have ever seen(having seen 5, of which I own 2)!!! I proceeded to tell them that it was a special edition, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, they just wanted to let me know that I was basically overpaying, which I wasn't. :roll:
Plus, how many people would be here on this board if TGPs were ultimately only a collector's car?? I doubt anyone would be here at all. You have to remember that we basically have a bastard child of a joint effort between two companies. :)
Here's something else to consider. Take the '87 GN/T-type for example as it's as closest car to a brother as we have. There were 27,590 turbo 3.8 cars made in '87 alone. That's over 4 times what we estimate to be our production number for '89 and '90. The reason we don't see good prices is that no one know that TGPs even exist. :(
http://www.gnttype.org/general/product.html
Quote from: skalorIt's a matter of supply and demand. There just isn't a demand for mint low mileage TGPs. Even when ones do come up, like the one for $9K. I highly doubt that anyone will pay that much for that car. That's the reason why they sell so cheap:)
Not haveing read the rest of the post, I disagree with this point. I think they sell for so cheap is because they are mainly viewed as tempermental expensive to repair junk. So this attitude spreads to the rest of the market. Even one that is in great shape. Rick is right, we've had this discussion before, as my soap box is quite worn out from it. But it doesn' hurt to have it again as new people are coming on board.
Guys buy them for cheap, find out it needs a $450 crossover, $500+ powermaster and then it blows the transmission, or turbo etc etc. So then they sell it or part it out. They sell it cheap too just to unload it. So then there are lots of broken TGP's around getting the rap that they're junk and selling for cheap. When a good one comes around, the market says hey MOST of them are worth from $500 to $4000. How do you get off asking $9k?
Looking at it on paper, I just can't figure out why the TGP parts and cars sell for so little, and GN parts can't sell fast enough? Especially in a world of FWD cars with turbos NOS and SC's where gm is ill represented. Maybe its the size of the car, or the difficulty in adapting to other platforms evolving a TGP engine swap into a custom engine buildup for the effort.
In the end, I don't think its worth 9 large either, there are very few GN's I'd pay that much for. But its all in perspective. There are things I would be willing to put up with because I know how to deal with them. I had a guy the other day tell me $7500 or $8000 wasn't bad for a GN, after a few days before a bunch of GN guys haggled me at such a price for a car. Which is why its important for us to realize the perspective. Even though WE may not think they are worth that much, OTHER people should. It can only benefit us.
Quote from: skalor
It's a neat idea that we might be able to drive up the price of the car, but what about establishments that don't know of the TGPs existance. Here's something else to consider. Take the '87 GN/T-type for example as it's as closest car to a brother as we have. There were 27,590 turbo 3.8 cars made in '87 alone. That's over 4 times what we estimate to be our production number for '89 and '90. The reason we don't see good prices is that no one know that TGPs even exist. :(
HA HA! An answer to my wonderment. Maybe its just all in the numbers. In its most basic form the GN alone was in existence for, what, 5 years, with the Turbo Regal dating back into the late '70's. Just sheer volume and propaganda is why the parts sell better, because more people are aware of it.
Think of the car the TGP was compared to, the Thunderbird SC, it was produced from 89 till at least 94 (not positive). It had impressive numbers and a rare intercooled eaton supercharger. I find very little information and aftermarket on these cars oddly enough. Maybe we experience this kind of phenomenon that the TBSC does. Whatever makes the TBSC less desireable makes the TGP less desireable?
On the point of production numbers, the Sy/Ty's don't seem to enjoy the fame (parts, aftermarket, web presence) the Turbo Regals do either. Maybe they are just a bad example to compare things to.
Although I think Sy/Ty's may fall into the collector car category more than others in this post. That and they are AWD which as I understand is great for Stoplight Drags, but ends up being a handicapp in high power drag racing.
Chris :roll:
Quote from: Chris A
Not haveing read the rest of the post, I disagree with this point. I think they sell for so cheap is because they are mainly viewed as tempermental expensive to repair junk. So this attitude spreads to the rest of the market. Even one that is in great shape. Rick is right, we've had this discussion before, as my soap box is quite worn out from it. But it doesn' hurt to have it again as new people are coming on board.
Guys buy them for cheap, find out it needs a $450 crossover, $500+ powermaster and then it blows the transmission, or turbo etc etc. So then they sell it or part it out. They sell it cheap too just to unload it. So then there are lots of broken TGP's around getting the rap that they're junk and selling for cheap. When a good one comes around, the market says hey MOST of them are worth from $500 to $4000. How do you get off asking $9k?
Looking at it on paper, I just can't figure out why the TGP parts and cars sell for so little, and GN parts can't sell fast enough? Especially in a world of FWD cars with turbos NOS and SC's where gm is ill represented. Maybe its the size of the car, or the difficulty in adapting to other platforms evolving a TGP engine swap into a custom engine buildup for the effort.
In the end, I don't think its worth 9 large either, there are very few GN's I'd pay that much for. But its all in perspective. There are things I would be willing to put up with because I know how to deal with them. I had a guy the other day tell me $7500 or $8000 wasn't bad for a GN, after a few days before a bunch of GN guys haggled me at such a price for a car. Which is why its important for us to realize the perspective. Even though WE may not think they are worth that much, OTHER people should. It can only benefit us.
Well put Chris!!! 8)
I agree that TGPs have a bad rap, and it's shame really. It definitely does have an effect on the value of our cars' as who would want such an temperamental beast?? I think the real reason that TGPs aren't really worth anything is that we are FWD!! Think about it...there is still a good amount of dislike amoung mostly RWD collectors towards FWD cars. I don't know of a truely collectable FWD car...do you???
Going on the same note...what makes a corvette so valuable??? That '80 Corvette that's slow as hell, and can't really handle either is somehow worth something!!! Yeah, a corvette is supposed to be a symbol of America. Well, if an '80 corvette is the american sportscar then I might go live in America junior(canada)!! :D
""I think the real reason that TGPs aren't really worth anything is that we are FWD!! ""
There that perception thing again. They are worth something and more than you're giving them credit for. Maybe its a Geographic thing. I too have owned 2 TGPs a red one which I sold last year in good condition with 116,XXX or so miles on it and the black one I have now. The red one sold in 11 days for $4500. It would have gone more quickly but the person that bought it had to get bank financing as well. I agree that the FWD is a major liability in the percieved value of these cars but they aren't taking the value hit that I sense has been your experience. You got a great deal it sounds like. That was the exception not the norm, not in my area anyways.
aside from wrecking mine trying to avoid a large bundle of wire that fell of a guys truck in front of me (never found out who the ahole was, tgp back in 2 week though) I've spent $50 in repairs over a 9 month period. Sure my crossover probaly leaks, but it isn't bad yet, its been a reliable car. In 6 more yrs it will be 20 yrs old and collectable.