Any ideas on the culprit(s)?
I've noticed that since I've bought the car, I've been getting poor gas milage with it. I know these cars run rich from the factory, but I would still think you could pull some decent milage out of it.
I've also noticed an occasional erratic idle, nothing big, but when listening to the exhaust, you can hear a miss or 2. Also, when running WOT in third, and sometimes second gear, it will out of the blue hesitate for a second, and then come right back to running full power.. It's weird. :?
Ideas? Fuel injectors? Plugged cat?
Oh, and another thing, I also noticed oil building up in my upper intake pipe when I had it off last. Could this be caused by a defective PCV valve? I don't know if it had ever been changed or not.
Thanks for any advice you all might be able to give me!
Is there oil in the pipe running from the Intercooler to the TB? What about the Turbo to the IC? If there is, then the seals on the turbo are leaking. They could be leaking for a few reasons. Either blown seals, or a plugged oil return line. This is a problem I'm having on mine right now, but I haven't had the time to pull off the ruturn line and see if it's plugged. It sounds like you're maybe having the same problem though.
Yes, there is oil in the pipe running from the IC to the throttle body.. I'm not sure about pipe from the turbo to the IC.
Ok.. so would it help any to know that I had a smoking issue a couple of days ago? I started the car up to leave from work, and was sitting in the car changing CD's and I noticed little wiffs of smoke drifting by the windows, so I revved the car some and the smoke got thicker and thicker, but after about 30 seconds of running the smoking subsided, and I haven't had the problem since then. It was a white smoke, and smelled like oil.. so I'm assuming that some oil got in to the exhaust.
Yeah...sounds like you either have a plugged oil return line or blown seals in the turbo. I'd check the oil return line first :D
I'm having the same problems I have no oil it the ic -tb pipe or turbo-ic
but it misses alittle at idle and does the power surge thing.
hope someone can figure this out.
Quote from: marcus18I'm having the same problems I have no oil it the ic -tb pipe or turbo-ic
but it misses alittle at idle and does the power surge thing.
hope someone can figure this out.
Have you pulled the plugs and checked them? It almost sounds like an ignition problem. I had something similar when I first got my TGP. Turned out that one of the coils was very weak (and slightly cracked). That was causing it to idle poorly, and surge once and a while under WOT.
This afternoon I got an intermittant SES light while driving home for lunch.
I haven't seen it on since that time, but if it does come back, I am gonna see what codes I can pull, (you can pull codes on the turbo 3.1 ECM right?)
I've noticed that the car stumbles whenever I push WOT.. When the boost climbs the car starts to stumble on itself..
What's the easiest way to check the oil return line on the turbo?
I need to get myself a friggin Turbo 3.1 manual, lol :roll:
If the SES light came on the code should be stored already. You pull the codes just like any other OBD 1.
The easiest way the check the oil return line is to take it off. Did you ask Kenny yet if he replaced it? I just finally changed mine the other day and now the turbo sounds different when it spools up. Sounds like it's spinning faster.
Now that you mention that.. you can barely hear mine spinning up. I know it is, but it's just not as loud. I would assume that if you had a K&N directly on the turbo that makes it quite a bit louder? Kenny had a custom rigged CAI on the car, and the Cone filter is behind the plastic panel on the passenger side of the car, directly under the electrical center.
Anyway.. Code 43, that's what I got.. I need that decoded, so can someone help a brotha out? lol 8)
Thanks
CODE 43
Trouble Code 43 indicates that there may be a malfunction in the Electronic Spark Control (ESC) circuit. ESC is used to sense spark knock (pinging) and retard the timing to eliminate it. The knock sensor is located at the rear of the engine block. The ECM will retard the timing by as much as 20 degrees in 1 degree increments. A loss of knock sensor signal or loss of ground at the ESC module will cause the signal at the ECM to remain high. The ECM will act as if no knock is present, and may possibly result in engine damage, due to detonation.
Code 43 is set when:
Voltage at Knock Sensor is above 4.8 volts or below .64 volts.
Either condition is met for about 10 seconds.
Possible causes:
1) Open or shorted knock sensor
2) Loose knock sensor
3) Excessive mechanical noise within engine
4) Improper or incorrectly installed MEM-CAL in the ECM or defective ECM
5) Intermittent open in the EST line to the ignition module
I'm not sure that code is gonna tell you much ;) I'd still check the oil return line.
If you're gonna change the crank sensor be gentle with it - mine snapped half way out. It's not a bad idea to change it either, it's less than $20. Worst part is getting it out.
Luke, I've heard that you have a knocking noise at idle or low rpm, that will give you the code 43 related to the knock retard. If I'm wrong about the knock issue, pull your plugs and check them, as any detonation will collapse your spark plug electrode(another issue I've heard about your car). :hockey: :drinking:
I wish I could get you guys an audio recording of the car.. but I can't find enough extension cables around the house that would be long enough to go from my bedroom (where the computer is) out to the driveway, lol. I haven't noticed any knock or pinging at all since that one time, and when I did hear it, it was really quiet.
As of today I still haven't gotten another SES light, but I do know something is really wrong with the car, as I was almost beat by a newer Grand AM GT last night in a race.. I would hope that if this car was running right, a F-ing N Body wouldn't be ANY contest!
I'll let her cool down today, and if I get a chance, I'll start looking at a few things. The oil return hose comes out on the top of the turbo right? I can see the coolant hose, but there's a smaller one next to that which snakes it's way down to the motor. Common sense would tell me thats the oil return line correct? How hard is that to change? Does it need replaced, or can it simply be blown out with an air compressor? The knock sensor is at the lower passenger side of the block correct? I may just replace that just to be on the safe side since it's a relatively cheap part.
Any help you guys can give me is very much appreciated. I'm still a newbie to the turbo 3.1 if you can't already tell, lol :oops:
No the oil return line is on the bottom of the turbo, its the only non-metal hose coming from it. After long periods of time, it can become clogged or break down and compress when it gets too hot. It's probably not a bad idea to change it. It's relatively easy to change, go get a foot of hydraulic hose and remove the old one, get new clamps and cut it to fit, and then re-install. Crank sensor is only accesible from the bottom unless you remove the alternator, and even then it's a bitch to get at. All there is is one 7 or 8 mm bolt, pull it out carefully, then re-install it firmly into the opening, and clip the wire back on it. I changed mine when I installed the TG 160 chip, along with plugs + wires, PCV. They all made a big difference, but when I took my CS out, it snapped, which leads me to believe that it was causing most of my stalling problems. I bet it was original. Anyway - let us know how it turns out.
Here's the thread for the oil return line -
http://www.netavalanche.com/tgp/viewtopic.php?t=3&highlight=oil+return+line
I just found the other line coming from the turbo, I removed the washer fluid resivoir and was able to find the other one. Good thing is I think I have some of that hose here at the house. I'll find out when I get it off.
I should be able to get at it from the bottom really easily. There's a BIG opening underneith the car where the auto tranny would be, so I would think it would be easier to get to from the bottom.
Ok, I've got the rubber oil return hose off, and it looks like it's perfect. It's stiff, no soft spots, and it's not plugged at all.. I'm gonna see if I can get to the knock sensor now..
Does the oil hose look like it's wrapped with tape and orange inside? If it does it is original. Replace it anyway.
Nope.. it doesn't look orange inside at all..
Advance auto wanted $40 for the knock sensor, and I found it on the car, I just don't trust the $15 jack I bought from walmart a while ago.. cheap thing can't even lift the car up all the way :evil: .
I'm putting things back together right now.. and I was thinking, would it be possible to remove the cruise control module and not have any ill side effects? There isn't a criuse control cable hooked up to the vacuum module at all, so I figured I could probably remove it. Would the 2 vacuum lines just have to be plugged together to maintain vacuum?
The hose was replaced then and should be ok.
I replaced it at about.....88K, give or take a few K.
Got a brief break here, not much, been a little busy, just wired funds to couple of banks, got insurance, faxed titles, got loans set etc and bought 2 cars today (I will be nice and NOT say what they are), order total engine rebuild kit, made up and shipped out a pipe package, mowed the lawn, did the shopping, did a few emails, refinanced the house, and that was just today, last few days were about as busy, add that I get an average of 350 TGP emails a month with a lot of pipe and/or chip orders and more, its intense most the time here. But nuff about me!!! Luke, a code 43 can be caused by an engine noise/knock, and when the computer hears an engine noise/knock often enough (does not have to knock all the time) it will flat out take off 7 degrees of timing at all times. This will also make the o2 cross-counts at idle appear worse causing the idle problem you described (there is some puffing as the o2 swings from rich to lean in closed loop). And since you are 7 degrees of timing less, your power and gas mileage will suffer as well, and 7 degrees less timing will have you running richer, out the back as well, BUT WOT in a turbo car IS rich to be on the safe side and to also use the cooling effect of the extra fuel in absorbing the heat from forced induction, using the latent heat of evaporization like when we sweat. The turbo oil drain line will not effect engine running, if the drain line was bad it would puff smoke after a long idle, short idle if its really bad, and bad as in look down the inside of the drain pipe for buckling out of the clear liner, they all do it so it?s a good idea to just replace it while you have it off. If this car is the one Kenny owned then I think he already did the crank position sensor, Waskie did the knock and they are not something that fails very often at all. A TGP turbo with a K&N air filter is going to woosh pretty loud, I would check the free play first to make sure the compressor wheel it not making contact with the compressor housing, just pop off the air filter and with your fingers grasp the compressor wheel end nut, lift up and down and turn it some to see if you can feel it hang or hear it hit/scraping the housing, also turn it while pulling the nut out, if it does make contact then the bearings are bad, this happens when the oil gets coked from not being cooled down after a hard pull, and shut off too soon. The coked up oil will restrict proper oil lubrication. I will swear by these little T-25 turbos as I know a lot of owners with 150K, 180K up to 260K miles on the original turbo, even a few when installing my pipe have sent their turbos in for a rebuild long as it was off, but with 150+K miles the rebuild shops (that were honest) said their turbos were in excellent shape and would last another 100K miles. The horror stories are not true any more about turbos being such a problem, if they are just treated to proper care, it is common now and has been for a while for turbos to outlast the engine!!
Well, this is the only post I have done in about a month and that is all I got time for, need to find some plane flights to get one of these cars I snagged. I think I have covered about everything with your engine, so good luck!!
Jeff M
Thanks for everyone's input!
I replaced the knock sensor the other day, and checked the PCV valve as well. The PCV valve was absolutly fine, in fact, it looked almost brand new, and rattled like it should. The knock sensor, I have no idea when it was last replaced, but it made a big difference in the performance of the car. (in a good way)
I also removed all the stock intake setup that was still in the car. I used the stock hose that went from the turbo to the intake box and attached the K&N filter to it, and then shoved it down right in front of the intercooler. With the AC fins removed, the fan moves quite a lot of cold air through the IC, so the filter also catches most of that now as well. I can actually HEAR the turbo spooling now, and it's an awesome sound! I also noticed a performance gain from this as well. My cutouts at WOT are almost gone (knock sensor may have contributed to that), and the car pulls like a raped ape in all gears now!
Next on my list of things to do is to either gut the cat, or replace it, Accel LT1 injectors (6 of em), new O2 sensor, crank sensor (just to be safe), and moving the battery to the trunk and creating a fenderwell CAI.
I got a nice raise at work too, so I hope to get her running good before the W-Body Gathering!
Hey luke, I was having about the same problems as you described earlier, what do you think it was that caused it (and fixed it) thanks.