I'm 95% sure I have a faulty wastegate actuator but in all my searching I could not find any posts that described a procedure that I can do at home to test the actuator itself to determine if it's good or bad, does anyone have a simple procedure to follow? Second, I read of others having actuator problems but again, I can't find one post that gives a part number or a source of where someone actually got a replacement. Can I hear from someone who has actually replaced theirs? Third, and this will have to be quick, does anyone know if this part I found on ebay would work for our turbo? ebay wastegate (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7961663928&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT) I know there would have to be a few modifications made but could it work?
#1 http://www.netavalanche.com/tgp/viewtopic.php?t=1346
#2 There is no off the self replacement I was ever able to find for less than $100. Most places needed to match it up. Everyone I know has gotten theirs from another person with a turbo.
#3 no, base pressure too high and probably won't physically fit
Thanks Chris. I actually looked at that post but I was looking for a way to test it without the vacuum pressure pump (since I don't have one). I have emails out to about 5 companies and so far the only place that has given me a ray of hope is Turbochargers.com. They say they can rebuild it for $150 (gasp!). I'm hoping for a better outcome from some of the other places.
if you take the actuator off, or disconnect it from the wastegate, you can pull the rod out, and it should have a good bit of resistance. you should then be able to hold the rod by placing your finger over the boost port. if the rod completely retracts, or you can hear air leaking its bad.
whats the symptom anyway?
Quote from: Chris Aif you take the actuator off, or disconnect it from the wastegate, you can pull the rod out, and it should have a good bit of resistance. you should then be able to hold the rod by placing your finger over the boost port. if the rod completely retracts, or you can hear air leaking its bad.
whats the symptom anyway?
The car is over boosting and cutting out. I don't have an aftermarket gauge but the stock boost gauge reads about 13-14 PSI when it happens. The solenoid has been replaced so I'm pretty sure it's the actuator. I have the actuator off the car right now and like you said Chris, when I pull on the rod there is a good bit of resistance. Let me make sure I understand the bolded part above. If I pull out on the rod and place my finger over the boost port, the rod should not retract all the way back to it's resting position until I remove my finger, correct? If that is what you are saying then my actuator fails that test big time. It jumps right back. I also just tried blowing into the boost port and it's definitely not air tight in there like I think it should be. Thanks for the help.
yep, all the makings of a bad actuator.
This might be sick but :lol: ....wipe off the port on the WG Actuator and wrap your lips around the port and suck, you don't need some fancy vacuum pump though they are handy, if you can hold a vacuum while sucking on the port then its good, if not then bad/the internal rubber diaphragm is leaking, time to shop for another :). Tell us how the outcum was on these tests :P
Jeff M
The actuator will not hold any pressure or vacuum. With the help the two of you have given I'm sure I have a bad actuator. I'm still waiting on a few companies to get back with me. Has anyone ever tried to open one of these things up to see if there is a chance at repair on our level?
I got lucky and found the place below, check them out, they guys are also top notch to talk to, know some serious shit, impressed, I have an actuator from them, too good to put on my engine but can be used if you just pop off the spot welds holding the wastegate can onto your bracket, you have and drill holes for their can though its too cool to be called "canned" :lol: . Theirs is adjustable with different springs inside and a threaded rod, and is rebuilding where ours is NOT. DO LET US KNOW if you find a source, I have at least been hounded off and on for years by people wanting to find a stock replacement one!!!
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&catalog=0001
Jeff M
Ha, Jeff your getting old. :lol: I gave you this source years ago.
http://www.mddistributors.com/ You should ask god910 (Jay) how he files his stuff cause he can find anything. :roll:
I have one, it was on the car about a year. Bought it from the above source. 75 shipped, new was over 90 with no shipping. It's also slotted for easy installation and drilled for a spring for more boost. don't know where the spring is though but hardware stores have them.
Jud
Man if you did I still don't remember :lol: , unless because I never got to see what they had/they don't list pics on their web site, I didn't make a mental note on it :? Got to see it maybe own it to recommend it 8) . Thanks (again) for the link, will make a note on it better this time :).
Any pics, since you bougth "this one" is it like the one on the TGP or?? And its "drilled for a spring for more boost" meaning you can open it up to swap different spring pressures? And that spring it came with worked on your TGP? Might not have a memory but am sweating the details here with these questions, that I know 4pasnu will be asking next :lol:
Jeff M
I'm pretty sure he's talking about putting a spring on the outside of it like he showed me how to do.
Shawn
That ForgeMotorsports unit is sweet!!!!
i found a dealer close to me but unless my W/G dies im in no rush to spend that kinda cash on it....
Quote from: Jeff MI got lucky and found the place below, check them out, they guys are also top notch to talk to, know some serious shit, impressed, I have an actuator from them, too good to put on my engine but can be used if you just pop off the spot welds holding the wastegate can onto your bracket, you have and drill holes for their can though its too cool to be called "canned" :lol: . Theirs is adjustable with different springs inside and a threaded rod, and is rebuilding where ours is NOT. DO LET US KNOW if you find a source, I have at least been hounded off and on for years by people wanting to find a stock replacement one!!!
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&catalog=0001
Jeff M
Jeff, I'm guessing you are talking about the adjustable race actuator they sell on that page. Well, it's a beautiful unit and for the price it seems like a good deal. Since I have somewhat limited knowledge here I wouldn't know how to adjust something like that so it performs as stock (or maybe a little better if possible).
*edit* I don't know if this is what you were asking Jeff...but...
If I had my digital camera here (in Hungary at the moment) I would take a pic of my pressure syringe that I used to adjust my past adjustable wastegate actuators.
Another idea a friend had was a manual blood pressure bulb with a different gauge on it (don't think we need 300 mmHg of pressure! :wink: ). It was converted (just a different gauge threaded in) to a PSI gauge (0-20 psi with 1 psi increments) and worked like a charm.
Breakover ( 0.0250" of movement of the actuator arm) is set by watching the arm for the slightest movement really. Move the jam nut out of the way completely (just loosen) with it connected to the wastegate hinge...put pressure to the actuator and watch for movement. You then turn the collar that is connected to the actuator arm and the wastegate hinge. Any adjustable arm I have ever dealt with was normally 1 pound increase for every 1.5 turns in (making the shaft SHORTER). Not all are the same so some experimentation would be in order of course.
Once the preload is set to breakover it will not matter what the wastegate solenoid was calling for...the preload on the actuator would not move until the preset psi load was achieved on the actuator...then it would move.
Stock the wastegate actuator is set to 4 psig. I have seen a few breakover at 3.8...some at 4.6 psi. Depends on the internal spring preload.
Once you have the preload psi set...tighten down the jam nut and you are cruising to your set psi... 8)
Quote from: Jeff MMan if you did I still don't remember :lol: , unless because I never got to see what they had/they don't list pics on their web site, I didn't make a mental note on it :? Got to see it maybe own it to recommend it 8) . Thanks (again) for the link, will make a note on it better this time :).
Any pics, since you bougth "this one" is it like the one on the TGP or?? And its "drilled for a spring for more boost" meaning you can open it up to swap different spring pressures? And that spring it came with worked on your TGP? Might not have a memory but am sweating the details here with these questions, that I know 4pasnu will be asking next :lol:
Jeff M
This is the exact same actuator that came on our cars P/N 430819-92
3198 22757. The spring that I added as you can see is external. Different springs = different boost. I must have a dozen springs that I have chopped upto get the desired boost. The one in the picture yeilds about 14#. And yes I found a spring which will go with it. The internal spring is not really servicable.
The slots make it a brezze to install. Getting the old one off is a PIA. :evil:
There are 800 numbers and they claim to be able to get hard to find parts, that's why I went to them. When I got mine they had to have it shipped from wherever so if you buy one I think your looking at double
shipping.
There ya go Jeff. And everybody else. :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/sleeperred90tgp/IMG_0009.jpg)
Jud
Quote from: sleeperred90tgpHa, Jeff your getting old. :lol: I gave you this source years ago.
Yes, he is.
Quote from: sleeperred90tgp
http://www.mddistributors.com/ You should ask god910 (Jay) how he files his stuff cause he can find anything. :roll:
HEY! What's that supposed to mean? :lol:
Jay you have found a couple of things that I had posted that I couldn't find the post. :) I think one was a picture and I couldn't find it in my computer or anywhere. Was hoping you would jump in with a picture of the waste gate actuator cus I couldn't find one and I know I have posted a picture of it somewhere. The stuff you did find you said you had it filed away. So therefore your filing system is better than mine. :roll:
Jud
Jud, VERY NICE!!!! THANKS!! But I still have to ask, what psi on a stock chip and on my chip did this actuator give you without the added spring??
Did it bolt on and align the same as the stock one?
Now, if read on a real boost gauge, 14 psi is too much for our turbo to run, even with higher octane! 12 psi is max safe and useable i.e. too hot of air past 12 psi so NO extra power there!!!. And timing in my chip at that point is taken down from stock or you get knock/detonation, hell you get 10 degrees of knock retard at 10 psi of boost with the stock timing but that is because GM/McLaren never tested at 10 psi, why would they?
Thanks again for the pics and info, got a guy who sure as hell better be reading maybe replying to this informative post!!! (gearhead43), that too so I know he sees this since he is also in desperate need of one and hounding me for help to get one :lol: .
Jeff M
Quote from: Jeff M
Now, if read on a real boost gauge, 14 psi is too much for our turbo to run, even with higher octane!
I believe Jud runs a bit better turbo then we have stock, I did a quick search and came up with a post stating he has a "GT28."
Quote from: mfewtrailQuote from: Jeff M
Now, if read on a real boost gauge, 14 psi is too much for our turbo to run, even with higher octane!
I believe Jud runs a bit better turbo then we have stock, I did a quick search and came up with a post stating he has a "GT28."
Ahhh, ok! Though that might still be pushing it for our compression, if its an upgraded turbo then its mass air output will be better meaning you don't need to run higher boost for higher hp (though you can get more too), so its possible that 8 psi from that turbo is equal to 10 psi from ours (just an example/rough estimate) just think of the mass air we all get in colder months verses the wimp our cars are in the hot summer month when the air thins out, same difference, dense oxygen rich/mass-air, and that all important proper amount of fuel for that extra oxygen! And if he has my chip, going to need to not just check the fueling with a wide-band, going to be able to add timing too up top, checking the amount at cold extremes to hot extremes, test things or just pray 8)
Jeff M
Damn Jeff now you are really making me search my memory and I am older than you are. :wink:
Lets see now, Can't say I ever compared chips for boost, can't say for sure when I got your chip. 3 years 4 years? I put an aftermarket boost controller shortly after I got the car so the chip never entered the equation. That actuator as I remember allow the waste gate to blow open at around 8-10#. Sorry couldn't help you there.
The only time I have compared your chip was to see if the stock chip would support larger injectors. It did but wasn?t as fast.
Trust me, if you went to the dealer and ordered the actuator this is what you would get. This one is identical to my old one(stock one). What's throwing you is maybe the slots. Well I slot everything I can for easy removal and installation. Try putting the bolts back in. It?s a bitch.
As for boost. When I first came to Houston 7 years ago I bought and ran a convenience store in Baytown (Home of Huston Raceway Park and the Spring Nationals. In 2 weeks.) So here I am 5 miles from a drag strip. Hadn?t been to a strip in like 20 years. So off I go with my 16# boost and managed a whopping 16*+ run. Well I couldn't go up in boost so I went down. Anyhow when I got to 10# it turned 15 3's. This spring is the only one left that I know what the boost was.
Matt. Yes I am running the GT28BB for the last 2 years. Can?t go much over 10# without detonation but there is a whole lot more air in this 10#.
Went to the strip a week or so ago and made one run 13.887 @ 101.69. :) If you want to post it to your list I?ll email it to you. At least I got out of the 9?s.
Only made one run cus the NHRA Division 7 big boys were in town so I just watched. Pretty awesome cars and times. Went back the next day and Sunday for eliminations. Well worth going especially when I walked up to the ticket window and some guy handed me 3 tickets for me, wife and grand son and wouldn?t take a dime. ($55 worth) They liked the first hour or two until the nitro dragsters went of. That scared the hell out of them. I guess they won't be going to the Spring Nationals with me.
Jud
Well, my actuator is on its way. Using the link Jud supplied I found a phone number. I called but unfortunately they couldn't help me because I was not in their distribution area. They referred me to a place in Kentucky that said the same thing who then referred me to Performance Turbocharger in California. I ordered the part number 430819-92 (thanks again Jud!) and it came to just over $103 with tax and 2nd day shipping. I should have it Monday. The guy I talked to was Gary and his email address is garyhetrick@dieselusa.com, phone number 1-866-887-2648. I would like to thank everyone who posted. I'll post back when I get it installed and let everyone know how it worked out.
Your welcome Mike. Man you had to go through some calls to get it. I guess the franchise arangements with Garrett are strict. Well atleast you got it. Should have considered the one in the picture and saved 28. Oh well I'll ebay it.
Glad you got one.
Jud
Quote from: sleeperred90tgpYour welcome Mike. Man you had to go through some calls to get it. I guess the franchise arangements with Garrett are strict. Well atleast you got it. Should have considered the one in the picture and saved 28. Oh well I'll ebay it.
Glad you got one.
Jud
Or spent another $47 and got that badass Forge unit.
Quote from: god910Quote from: sleeperred90tgpYour welcome Mike. Man you had to go through some calls to get it. I guess the franchise arangements with Garrett are strict. Well atleast you got it. Should have considered the one in the picture and saved 28. Oh well I'll ebay it.
Glad you got one.
Jud
Or spent another $47 and got that badass Forge unit.
Badass indeed.......
place close to me retails the Forge for $212 CDN
Quote from: sleeperred90tgp
Went to the strip a week or so ago and made one run 13.887 @ 101.69. :) If you want to post it to your list I?ll email it to you. At least I got out of the 9?s.
Jud
Nice run, email it to me mfewtrail@alltel.net and I'll gladly update your time on the page and your slip. 8)
Hey as long as it?s the same as stock, that is all I needed to know 8) . I was guessing it was not and why I was asking the boost readings you got, which don?t matter now since its stock, NICE FIND!!! Going to stock a few just in case!!!
I do trust you it?s the right one 8) , but ?dealers? at least GM dealers could never get just the actuator :roll: . You are right, Garrett is a pain to deal with, I know all too well, all of 4 guys handle all sales, that is insane!!!!
You made the slots, ok, got it, I just rotate the compressor housing to allow clearance for those nasty bolts, then clock it back so the wastegate rod is 90 degree to the actuator :) .
13.88 :shock: !!!! That is great news!!! How long were you going to hold onto this great time slip :lol: !! You don?t mention the air temp, since its Texass :hick: (just kidding) good chance it was a hot day or maybe not and a cool night, you ought to feel these turbos with 0 to 20 degree air, like a 100 shot if NOS :twisted: .
Thanks again Jud, I emailed gearhead43 to let him know too, that should make his life happier :biggrin: .
Jeff M
Thanks Jeff...
Yea the last part I need so I can RELAX... Sheeesh...
BTW that turbo you sold me.. errr Cheapturbo.com is currently rebuilding it.. They report that the turbine housing is scored... So it still needs a new housing... :? .. They are on backorder .. Waiting for a shippment to come in from Garrret... :(
There goes AutoFair for the second time in 2 years...
Well I just told you what Jud found out for us, he da man 8) !!
Well that was a turbo off of eBay, I got what I got and so did you :wink: aren?t you ever happy :lol: . I never ran that turbo or took it apart (was bought to have spare parts to mod and work with, really did NOT want to sell it but you were nagging me :lol: ) so did not know anything about the housing being scored, and to tell you the truth (basing this on your report of "scoring"), I would NOT worry about it!!! All the turbos I have seen from swapping pipes on all my cars, and the many who have come here over the years, there is always carbon buildup on the inside of the turbine housing outlet, that can make the turbine wheel come into contact with the turbine housing, seen this many times. I just use a light grinding stone to clean off the carbon, AND since our turbos have such an exhaust restriction issue when getting up there in boost, there is no problem with opening up the outlet of the turbine side a little from this cleaning, this helps allow a little more exhaust escape, we have more then enough exhaust from our engine to already have next to no turbo lag, and holding 10 to 12 psi of boost is not an issue and is all the boost you want this turbo to run anyways. So your turbo shop thinking what most people do unless they own a TGP, having concerns with turbo lag and opening the turbine outlet would increase the lag time for most turbo engines, but like I said, we have too much exhaust and is one of the key area I am working on with turbo upgrades, FACT!!
So with all those facts, I would just have them clean the outlet and don't think of it as an issue, I never did and the facts above support this! If there is scoring then that had to come from the turbine wheel making contact, so more importantly better check the turbine wheel!!! This all falls back to what I said about buildup, the scoring might only be the turbine wheel running into the carbon buildup (not for sure the scoring actually went into the iron of the housing????) so I don?t think at this point (not having the turbo apart here at my place) you have anything to worry about, so be happy :lol: , and get that wastegate 8) !!
Last, surprised they did not complain to you about the cracks in the wastegate hole, all T2-T25 series turbos have these, knowledgeable shops don?t worry about it, and non have ever seen it an issue or bad enough that the thing falls apart!
Jeff M.
Quotethere is always carbon buildup on the inside of the turbine housing outlet, that can make the turbine wheel come into contact with the turbine housing, seen this many times. I just use a light grinding stone to clean off the carbon, AND since our turbos have such an exhaust restriction issue when getting up there in boost, there is no problem with opening up the outlet of the turbine side a little from this cleaning, this helps allow a little more exhaust escape
I think the turbo shop specifically stated it was scored at the bearing? :shock: Not where the turbine could hit the housing?.. But I'm not one hundred percent sure of that. I will have to call Ken and ask him.. ... I'll mention what you said...
QuoteLast, surprised they did not complain to you about the cracks in the wastegate hole,
Muahahahahahah Yes they did.. I told them not to worry about it... :lol:
Quote from: god910Quote from: sleeperred90tgpYour welcome Mike. Man you had to go through some calls to get it. I guess the franchise arangements with Garrett are strict. Well atleast you got it. Should have considered the one in the picture and saved 28. Oh well I'll ebay it.
Glad you got one.
Jud
Or spent another $47 and got that badass Forge unit.
By the time you get everything. threaded end and a bracket I would guess you would have over 200 US in it. Yes its bitching looking. 8) But you stil need springs. :lol:
Jud
Quote from: Jud
By the time you get everything. threaded end and a bracket I would guess you would have over 200 US in it. Yes its bitching looking. 8) But you stil need springs. :lol:
Ummm, with the Forge unit, you can spec the spring you want up front, so I don't think you need an external boy, slick thing is you can pop it open to swap springs if needed but the guy I talked to was so good at these the first spring selected should be good for the boost you tell him you want to run, or at least there are only a few more to try/not custom hunting to find one that will work 8). But like you, I like these challenges, puts you to the test and makes it more an adventure!! :P
Jeff M
Quote from: Gearhead43I think the turbo shop specifically stated it was scored at the bearing? :shock: Not where the turbine would hit the housing?.. But I'm not one hundred percent sure of that. I will have to call Ken and ask him.. ... I'll mention what you said... :
Ohhh, ok, thats different!!..might have been some carbon in the oil at the turbo center section where mineral oil likes to leave chunks, sorry to here that, if this is the case then yea a new housing, poop, sorry about that, never would have known that after getting it off of eBay unless I took it all the way apart.
And glad you got them to pass on the cracked wastegate opening, though with a new housing that will be a thing of the past for a while :P .
Let me know the end results on the cost and time to get one!!
Jeff M
I had mine (turbo) done late last summer from Cheapturbo.com and if i recall it ran me just over $400 for the rebuild, HPC Turbine and Polished Compressor.
he mentioned the cracks on my W/G Port too and he said he has not seen one that wasn't with that perticular casting.....
Quote from: Jeff M
13.88 :shock: !!!! That is great news!!! How long were you going to hold onto this great time slip :lol: !! You don?t mention the air temp, since its Texass :hick: (just kidding) good chance it was a hot day or maybe not and a cool night, you ought to feel these turbos with 0 to 20 degree air, like a 100 shot if NOS :twisted: Jeff M
I was going to go again the next week but didn't. There is still some more left in it and I only improved .08.
According to the owner of the Pro Comp car that gave me a tour of there car and trailer. :) I mean everything even pulled drawers open, showed me there Crew Chief Pro software and data collection and ther Altalabs weather station which said we were at 1300+'. The track is sealevel. Don't remember all the numbers but it was about 70* and the pressure is always 29 or 30. The humidity is usually the killer down here. Rarely have I seen it below 80%.
Speaking of nitrous. This car runs a 500HP shot single stage, add that to the 1400 HP motor and you get a ride at 6.80 @195MPH. That would have to be a thrill.
Jud
Wastegate actuator installed! I received the actuator the other day and immediately put it in. Install went smooth, I took Jud's idea and slotted the bolt holes to make it a bit easier. Took it out for a run and, WOW, it's nice to have my car back! :D I almost forgot how fun this car is to drive. Thanks again for the help everyone.
Instead of making a new thread may as well continue this one...
Anyways, since we have had one successful fix at this, I'll add a non-successful fix. A little background, ever since we put the new engine in, the car has been unable to run very much boost WITH the wastegate actuator/boost control solenoid hose plug in. We have: Installed new hoses for the setup, BRAND NEW boost control solenoid, BRAND NEW wastegate actuator, and still it won't booost properly with the hose on. Any ideas on what the problem is? Boosts fine with the wastegate actuator not installed, I'm in Utah, so it doesn't hurt the built engine at all, but having it unplugged just isn't right. Looking for any ideas on what to try next? I will mention that no-load revving the engine the actuator rod begins to move slightly before it hits the nuetral rev limiter?
Any suggestions on what to look at next?
New BCS
New Wastegate Actuator
New Vacuum Hoses which have been verified to be installed properly and not leaking
???? :x :x
Only thing I can think of since you did good and found unplugged it will boost is the lines are plugged in wrong/reversed at the solenoid? You can always reverse them and try it again, got nothing to loose.
Jeff M