Okay, this is getting old. My vacuum lines have melted for the FOURTH time. I'm starting to think somebody was in there before me and snipped some things because they?re REALLY close to the underside of the turbo. This time the main vacuum source to the HVAC/Cruise melted to the exhaust! I've re-routed everything but I'm an amateur at all this. The girlfriend and I were about to take a trip to Arkansas. The car started to shake like a crack-head in withdrawals before we were even out of state. Now, it runs rough if held at a steady speed. If you speed up or slow down it?s okay. Also, idle is fine while in park but when I put it in gear and try to drive the acceleration is slower than a stoner trying to do calculus. There?s another odd thing, the car doesn't shift until it?s near redlining. It did this when I first got it but I fixed it on accident (not really sure how I did it.) Just to test it I disconnected the HVAC/Cruise and plugged the line the TB and the check valve but it's still doing it. I changed the plugs (I used Bosch Platinum and I know now about the issue with this car and those plugs.) Now I?m kicking myself because I didn?t change the wires at the same time. I would have but my pocketbook is thinner than Kate Moss. Looks like I'm changing wires tomorrow. I'm also going to the junkyard to get a new vacuum check valve since mine melted and I had to epoxy the hole shut. I'm at my wits end with this car... I want to rebuild the damn thing but 1) I?ve never gotten a car to work again after tearing it apart and 2) I don't have the cash to replace ANYTHING right now. As a side note, I tried to pull it onto a slab in my back yard to work on it and got it stuck in my swampy yard. The bumper was on the ground! After jacking the car up and dropping bricks/sand under it I dug my way out and put it back in the front yard. Arrrrrgh! Jeff M, how do you do it? I'm about to lose it with this damn thing. If it wasn't a rare car I?d have already set it on fire and roasted marshmallows over the ashes!!! Any other suggestions of what to check? Oh, and is it a bad thing to have coolant leaking from your waterpump pully shaft? If it helps I got codes 33 and 45 but I figure 33 would be the plugs, which were worn pretty badly and 45 would be a melted vac line. Anybody? Should I just push it off a cliff and be done? Lol.
Update, changed wires and plugs and checked vac on everything with pump. Still rough idle. I re-routed the vac lines and got a good check valve off what I think used to be a Lumina at the junkyard (they crushed all the freakin GP's)... but I'm still getting rough idle. Any ideas? I know my crossover is probably cracked since I can see smoke from it when I rev the engine but would that cause this bad of an idle. I mean it shakes like a coil pack isn't hitting right. I'm thinking about changing the packs but I just wanted to know if that x-over would cause this. BTW do I have my vac lines right? Here's the diagram I followed (cleaned up.) (http://www.geocities.com/ryan_rester/pics/vacdiagram.jpg)
Sorry, been way too busy with projects, hot weather/watering burnt lawn/plants, taking care of neighbors, fixing other cars (mine sits again :roll: !), wife just back from surgery, but will give what I can hoping it will help!
Ahh, this is easy, too easy, just kidding :lol: , we might get lucky though 8) !! Best thing for diagnosing any poor running engine is to pull the plugs to see what they say, some black and sooty, or all black and sooty will lead us to a fix, all look clean/light colored coating and leads us other places. So check what the plugs look like and report back (busy ass week, also getting ready to leave town for 10 days, but will try to keep up). On the ignition side, long as it starts up easy then crank sensor should be good though this is a must to replace on any 3.1L!!!!!...and a cheap costing part/just save up for it and do it soon (part number 10456555 about $15, and an 8mm socket or wrench). But has problems running I would first do the easy stuff, make sure the plug wires are on the right coils to plugs!!!...there is a diagram on the front clip, small but there. Ohm out the plug wires ($15 Radio Shack VOMeter, that has many other uses then fixing a TGP :lol: ), or if you find one plug shitting looking, swap in another/used even plug wire and retest for roughness idling/running. Be thorough in testing these as suggested above, also at a dark location and on an engine without the cooling fan on at the time, look and listed at the spark plug wires to spark plug area, listen for a snapping sound, a glowing from a spark jumping off that area, had one spark plug on me get a crack in the ceramic, and bled out a spark and caused a rough idle/running. Since new wires I will assume they have not had a chance to wear into something and short out! That takes care of the wires to plugs, coil packs are more prone to piss and moan when loaded/under boost, not so typical and one could be bad but for now, keep going. Ign module seems to effect good starting, so if it always starts good but runs poor when cold then can pass for now on the Ignition Module. That is about it there, other electrical factors are AC volts coming from the alternator, same Radio Shack VOM set to AC scale to check for voltage at the battery, DC yes, AC no! Last is the ECM, but this problem does not sound related so for now, off to the fueling. Suck on the port sticking out of the top of the FPR, take off the vacuum line and attach another, suck on the vacuum line to the FPR port and if it holds a vacuum, go elsewhere. Checking the injectors (VOM meter again) can be done later after all the above reveals no problem, but here it the link in case I am not able to reply later: http://www.turbograndprix.com/FixIt.htm
Your non FPR and MAP vacuum lines should only cause an increase in idle, and a trouble code for the IAC/Idle Air Control. Code 33 will only happen when the vacuum line to those FPR and MAP parts is leaking (cause you to run rich too), not the one that goes over to the cruise/hvac!! Also the HVAC and Cruise Vac Lines do not run stock that close to the turbo/downpipe as you have, they are stuffed into the mess of wire looms there under the cruise control body, and is the better place to have them, especially if your turbo blanket is missing or falling apart.
That should be a good start, unless you find something, give us the plug end condition first off, then we can follow the guidelines above, as well others who?s knowalge has some more ideas I missed can add here too, please 8) !!
Jeff M
Plugs that were in there were black and they were bosch platinum with the big ceramic coating and sure enough they were wore well below said ceramic. I found out about the problem with them after putting them in. There was one plug that was a bit wet when I pulled it out. I checked pressure at the FPR and it holds. It's realllllly weak under load now. I just took it to buy smokes after tinkering with it and it has no acceleration at all. Transmission mod holds pressure too so I'm guessing it's not the cause of the hard shifts. I'm going to get some coils off of a junker at the local scrap yard (the yard owner is now under orders to hold all GP's and NOT crush them till I get a look at them. lol) I figure coils need to be changed anyway and there are no other trouble codes. I figured the vac lines should be longer and further from the heated areas, thanks for confirming. I'll let ya know if the coils get it, I'm hoping they do. Also, Jeff, something I wanted to ask you about... You mentioned a performance/rebuild kit a while back in a post. You ever finish those? If not, can I get a list of what to look for. I'm sure others would like to get an idea too. I'm thinking of getting the performance coils from Summit but I'm going to at least test with the junkyard ones. I've always worked on my own stuff but I'm thinking this thing should see a shop. Thanks again for the reply, especially since I know you're a busy guy. I'm still saving for some of your parts, especially the x-over and chip. I wish money wasn't so tight b/c this poor car deserves some TLC.
-Ryan
BTW: This is off topic but there's a Le Baron ragtop in the scrapyard that still has it's turbo. I don't have any plans for it but the guy is waaaay cheap on his prices if you or anybody else can use it. I can get it off of there easy. ;)
you need TGP specific Coils i think, i think they are the same off a 97-03 Grand Prix GTP coils as well
Well, that sucks. lol
Hmmmmmm.... looks like I'm putting in an order for NEW coilpacks.
Quote from: ryan_resterWell, that sucks. lol
Hmmmmmm.... looks like I'm putting in an order for NEW coilpacks.
Quote from: ryan_resterI've always worked on my own stuff but I'm thinking this thing should see a shop
Don't talk about going to a shop right while I am just starting to help you, dick-wad :lol: :D We will get you there, faster if I was not tied down (still up at 3am working here) shops will not have someone who knows these cars, and once you learn your way around these cars, future repairs and troubleshooting will be so much easier, less you buy a different car and want to start this all over again/learning the engine/bay area :lol:
Well he said he "thinks"? but me thinks different :lol: Coils are same, and are very strong, unlike the Summit or Accel counterparts :!: So GM coils, part number 10472401 about $35 each, but doubt all went bad at the same time, not that it could not happen, but, would be more prone to the rest of the checking mentioned above and the ign module as a possible problem, part number 10489422, so grab a couple ign mods and get them cheap, no junk yard should charge much for used electronics!!!...especially if you tell them this and that they are only to help test/toss when done/got new :wink: All plugs black would have me think fouled o2 from cracked pipe and/or failed FPR, and you tested it with pressure???...guess that works too, I tend to suck at my work :lol: But go with ign mod, then coils. You can always pull the ECM fuse, go for a quick drive before the computer relearns a bad pipe, o2 might still mess it up but worth a try, drive around too long and the test won?t help, do it right after the fuse is swapped out for 30 seconds! Better follow all these details or I might just send you to the shop :P .
Yea I have all the part numbers to do up a performance engine kit (sounds like you need to save for any such level of repair :shock: ), and like the doc I have which is 9 pages to install my chip (9 pages???) I want to cover all the details, tips, tricks, reasoning behind the parts, before I just send a box and say good luck. Many are custom parts I need to order ($$ for me to get all this stocked too, just dropped $1,500 for some sets of blue street/strip tranny clutches :evil: to name a few) and thankfully priced near stock which is why some of this took so much time, aside from the research and testing on cars, not that I have a lot of engines I take apart all the time :lol: , but found ways to get some test mules, mainly for fitment, no concerns the part will last :lol:
Later!
Jeff M
Yeah, you know I could never find a shop around here that would know what to do with it. lol
I'm going to follow your advice tomorrow, trust me. I appreciate the help. It's good to know that there's somebody out there that knows these things inside and out and has enough passion for them to try and keep em all running right. It's my daily driver and everybody that knows about it's limited manufacture says I should put it in storage somewhere and keep it spotless... we all know that's impossible. It's just too damn fun to drive. :)
As for getting another car... I did find a Fiero for 200 bucks that needs minor repairs but at least it's still a Pontiac. I know they're a pain to keep running but it's like driving a big go-kart... heh. Anyway, I'll post what I find as soon as I can. Hey, thanks again for helping.
Quote from: ryan_resterYeah, you know I could never find a shop around here that would know what to do with it. lol
I'm going to follow your advice tomorrow, trust me. I appreciate the help. It's good to know that there's somebody out there that knows these things inside and out and has enough passion for them to try and keep em all running right. It's my daily driver and everybody that knows about it's limited manufacture says I should put it in storage somewhere and keep it spotless... we all know that's impossible. It's just too damn fun to drive. :)
As for getting another car... I did find a Fiero for 200 bucks that needs minor repairs but at least it's still a Pontiac. I know they're a pain to keep running but it's like driving a big go-kart... heh. Anyway, I'll post what I find as soon as I can. Hey, thanks again for helping.
Cool, I do as others know this is a sweet ride that you don't want to give up and few compare to all it offers. I just got an insert with an Asian mag that lists all the hot cars such as RX7, Supra, GT-R, 200SX, and other such popular ones and being the best info I have seen in years; they listed all the common problems, which was at least as long as our car or any used car, even new have theirs till the warranty runs out, then you find out more about them first hand/before they are know as common, ugggg!!! They also listed the cost to fix these common problems, SHIT, there are many high dollar parts listed with these common problems, more so since these are imports and JDM parts are costly even before the US got a big stiffy for them, and labor is costly too since only few know how to do the work properly and so it lasts. So this is one of my fav mag inserts, that shows we are no different and should never say "Damn TGP" :lol: :lol: Well damn it when it not giving us the fun we enjoy!
Thanks for the nod on knowing these, we got lots of other guys that have a huge array of smarts, experience and wisdom, together we are killers, but as you have seen over the last 10 years, it still takes some time to fix a car off a message board, great when we get lucky, but there is still time needed to finally get to the main cause AND others that might be hiding too making our fixes seem not the issue when they still are part of it.
Later, waiting for update.
Jeff M
Quote from: ryan_rester(http://www.geocities.com/ryan_rester/pics/vacdiagram.jpg)
Whoa.. Wait a second. The check valve on the tranny, I thought the large, single end of it was for venting the boost, and NOT connected to a vacuum source?? We hooked Jess's checkvalve up with the large end venting boost, and the other 2 ends connected to the vacuum source and the modulator. What is the correct way?
Also, as Jeff said, TGP coils aren't specific to the motor. They are the same coils that come on any other W-body car.
Quote from: LukeZ34Quote from: ryan_rester
Whoa.. Wait a second. The check valve on the tranny, I thought the large, single end of it was for venting the boost, and NOT connected to a vacuum source?? We hooked Jess's checkvalve up with the large end venting boost, and the other 2 ends connected to the vacuum source and the modulator. What is the correct way?
I think another pic is in order :) For everyone reading, the vacuum line coming from the upper intake neck supplies an engine load (vac/boost) source signal to the tranny via the metal vac line, check valve and Vac Mod, that way the tranny's internal fluid pressures are made to match pressures for shift firmness based on engine load, meaning a high vacuum/light load causes the tranny fluid pressure to run low: easy shift (is all that is needed with a light load), then as the engine load increases/vacuum becomes less, the tranny fluid pressure increases and firms up the shifts. But the Vac Mod is not able to handle the boosted vacuum source so there is a bleed port on that check valve that is supposed to get rid of pressure/boost going to the Vac Mod, but it cannot bleed enough so there is also a restrictor in the end of the metal vacuum line, quite a bit of engineering in just this setup :shock: :)
Should be setup like this assuming the check valve is not leaking/allowing air to enter when the engine is under a vacuum:
(http://www.turbograndprix.com/VacModChk1.jpg)
Jeff M
Been super busy lately... got called out on a few assignments but I did find the problem. It's the middle coil... I'm not getting any fire from it at all. I'm letting it sit till next week though b/c I've got to go back out again and the company is renting me a car. I'm going to take this oppertunity to get a few other parts as well. Thanks for all the help Jeff. I'll be back on the road in no time.