can anyone here varify for absolute certainty that the TGP crank is hardened? in what ways are the pistons different and is anyone here running custom lower CR pistons? will the stock 8.8 CR support boost levels over 10lbs? thanks for any replies,
joshua
The crank is definately hardened, dont know about the other qustions. You should be able to run more boost because of your elevation.
Quote from: malibuoldscan anyone here varify for absolute certainty that the TGP crank is hardened? in what ways are the pistons different and is anyone here running custom lower CR pistons? will the stock 8.8 CR support boost levels over 10lbs? thanks for any replies,
joshua
Pistons are the same as other 3.1 cars, but OE pistons are superior to aftermarket ones (TRW etc). Crank has rolled fillets for hardening, rods and mains. All 60* motors currently produced have the same crank. I don't think it has been heat treated or nitrided. Properly tuned the TGP motor should produce well over 10 psi, i've heard tales of guys pushing close to 20 way back in the day but who knows.
thanks. i seem to be getting conflicting info from the 60 V6 board :? from what i've been told there it seems that n/a 3.1 pistons are not as strong as TGP pistons, and the cr is too high to run above 10lbs of boost. now i know this is crazy...but....how long do you think a healthy n/a 3.1 would last after a turbo conversion running say 6lbs of boost? it's got 175,000 miles! on the bright side, i have finally located a T-25, crossover, downpipe, and both exhaust manifolds....lots more to go though, including a built shortblock. oh yeah, if i were to get a chip from Jeff M, would i need a TGP prom as a core to send in?
joshua :
I have read literature that suggests the TGP has forged connecting rods. Is that not so?
Quote from: TookyCatI have read literature that suggests the TGP has forged connecting rods. Is that not so?
All 60* engines have forged con rods, but they are forged iron not steel afaik.
Quote from: malibuoldsthanks. i seem to be getting conflicting info from the 60 V6 board :? from what i've been told there it seems that n/a 3.1 pistons are not as strong as TGP pistons, and the cr is too high to run above 10lbs of boost. now i know this is crazy...but....how long do you think a healthy n/a 3.1 would last after a turbo conversion running say 6lbs of boost? it's got 175,000 miles! on the bright side, i have finally located a T-25, crossover, downpipe, and both exhaust manifolds....lots more to go though, including a built shortblock. oh yeah, if i were to get a chip from Jeff M, would i need a TGP prom as a core to send in?
joshua :
I've disassembled both motors and both use MAHLE pistons with a reinforcing steel band cast in the aluminum. I think that you could safely run up to 15lbs of boost on this engine.
Don't know about any engine on 175k miles! :wink:
No, no chip "core" needed!
cool thanks :) i also plan on using alcohol injection to help with detonation. should a t-25/t-28 turbo support a stock TGP engine in a w-body to low 14 seconds? where would i go about getting the turbo rebuilt/hybrid? and do you think a n/a 3.1 crank is sufficient for mild turbocharging? i really appreciate the help, thanks....
joshua
Quote from: malibuoldscool thanks :) i also plan on using alcohol injection to help with detonation. should a t-25/t-28 turbo support a stock TGP engine in a w-body to low 14 seconds? where would i go about getting the turbo rebuilt/hybrid? and do you think a n/a 3.1 crank is sufficient for mild turbocharging? i really appreciate the help, thanks....
joshua
Eh, mild turbocharging. I wouldn't trust it for alot. I've seen GN's that were rebuilt stock with NA cranks accidentally blow them into 3 pieces on low boost! So I would figure the same for a 3.1.
I don't know about the turbo options. I've researched this with several turbo companies and all of them say they can't do anything with a bolt in housing for the TGP that would be worth it. All of them want to change the exhaust housing. I would hope a t-25 can get into the 14's and low 14's. But your crank won't! :)
wow, so far about everything that was said here contradicts what was said on the long turbo thread on 60' V6 forum. i don't know who's wrong/right; i'm confused! according to the info i got at the 60' forum the crank is ok but the pistons aren't. um, well anyway so far i'm working towards a more or less stock TGP engine. the intercooler and plumbing will more than likely be custom, unless i happen to come across a TGP IC/Rad/plumbing in really good condition.
joshua
Quote from: malibuoldswow, so far about everything that was said here contradicts what was said on the long turbo thread on 60' V6 forum. i don't know who's wrong/right; i'm confused! according to the info i got at the 60' forum the crank is ok but the pistons aren't. um, well anyway so far i'm working towards a more or less stock TGP engine. the intercooler and plumbing will more than likely be custom, unless i happen to come across a TGP IC/Rad/plumbing in really good condition.
joshua
Well, I'll check out the thread over there too. I haven't been watching that forum very much. However, the pistons are only a strength issue if you are going to really be hammering on them, IE knock and piston meltdown. Its usually pretty tough to break a piston. But I have been there and can confirm the pistons are similar and there are plenty of TGP's romping on them so they should be fine. I've never heard of an NA crank breaking in a TGP, but don't know if anyone was careless enough to rebuild a TGP motor with one either. But from experience with other motors would say its not a great idea to reall romp on a NA crank.
well i hope it doesn't seem like i was trying to start any arguements, i'm just trying to get facts straight so i can get this buildup going in the right direction. it's a pretty interesting thread though, i think 137 replies. lots of ideas for custom turbo buildups with the 3.1. i wouldn't mind going with a T-3 from a Turbo Coupe (T-birdy), it would just be a matter of welding up a different flange on the crossover (i think). anyway, so the current 3100 V6 uses a hardened crankshaft that would fit a 3.1 MPFI block no problem? sounds like good insurance and i'm sure they are easy to get. thanks again,
joshua
Just ask Jeff Middaugh, he is a god!
Quote from: malibuoldsanyway, so the current 3100 V6 uses a hardened crankshaft that would fit a 3.1 MPFI block no problem? sounds like good insurance and i'm sure they are easy to get. thanks again,
joshua
yeah, i think alot of the problem overthere was terminology. Everyone has their own opinion too.
Yep the 3100 crank is exactly the same as the TGP crank. 3400 crank for that matter too. I've had both of them out and compared to a TGP crank and they are the same. I have one here that I could sell if you want. I also have a whole 3100 motor if I need another so I'm not worried about not having one.