I know some of you have boost controllers, but where did you get them and how do you put them on, i would like to do this before getting a top gun chip which leads me to my next question, to you have to use a higher octance fuel when chipped? Or can you still just use premium?
Thanks in Advance,
A boost controller won't do you much good, chipped or not. It can give you some control over boost settings to make it feel like you are tweaking it, but there is alot going on in the chip.
As far as fuel requirements with the chip, you can still run Premium Pump gas.
If you don't believe me, believe JEFF M. I found this post from him regarding this topic:
Any manual control of the wastegate on a stock chip's TGP will obviously
result in fuel cut, but this really needs to be but NOT tested!! The amount
of timing near to fuel cut on the stock chip is healthy, try and avoid it!!
And some of the important reasons we care about keeping the boost under
computer controls is as follows:
First off the timing in the stock chip at 9 psi and up is way too high and
detonation WILL results (taking out the timing in the chip is only part of
what is needed to be proper/safe) , that detonation is a warning of
knock-knock engine's broke!! To prove this, on a stock chip with only the
fuel cut taken out and the engineering bypass activated, I have seen and
recorded 10 degrees of knock retard with only 10 psi of boost, there could
of been more/higher level of knock retard but I preferred to not risk the
engine at that time to find out!! When detonation is sensed by the ECM, it
WILL retard the timing to try and save your engine BUT the programming there
ALSO relies on boost control ability as it will reduce the boost if knock
occurs for too long of a period of time (rather short period actually)!!!
So that means the chip uses timing-retard AND boost-retard to protect your
engine from detonation. With the ability of boost control taken out of the
picture by either unplugging, bleeding, restricting, regulating or wasting
money buying an $800 sweet looking aftermarket boost controller (that still
DOS NOT have the level of complexity the TGP boost program has), you negate
a very important safety feature in the chip, leave it alone! Even those
with chip'd ECMs want to avoid touching or modifying the boost system,
without it in place the turbo can spool dangerously high, I make sure to
take out enough timing to save any risks BUT nothing is an absolute
guarantee. AND the amount of timing taken out to keep things safe past 13
psi is enough to totally negate any reason to be there, meaning too much
heat from turbo, no power gains past the boost level setpoints of 12 psi,
that because there has to be basically zip for timing to try and stay safe!
Understanding the workings such as these boost and timing retards areas (and
there are many more important areas as comprehensive with this chip!!)
should certainly lead the owner to believe it to be an extremely powerful
and worthy setup to stay with, only needing adjustments and thorough
milti-state/climate/car testing to improve upon. Stand along engine
management systems are great, simple to setup but do not have the level of
safety and features of stock, but the simpler settings afford owners quicker
basic running and power making results when taking on something that is way
past stock such as dual turbos, T-4 size turbo and huge injectors and such
radically cool power projects. Other than that, it is so simple to make a
TGP proper and even faster, stock chip or not, air filter upgrade it!! DO
NOT be obsessed with a CAI, yes better but by how much?? Take a look at any
car mag on the shelves such as Sport Compact Car or others and NOTE the many
national champs who run an air filter INSIDE their engine bay, some close to
heat generating areas as ours (yes the engine is hot when you pop the hood,
but not many people race standing still as there is a lot of air going into
the engine bay of a moving vehicle!!). A CAI is an improvement but for the
cost currently of $270 YOU have to be the judge if that amount is worth it
to you, it may be and that is all that matters, we do not own your TGP, its
yours so do with it as you please, we just say enjoy it!!! Make a CAI
yourselves, it can be done for sure, luck is always given to anyone working
on their TGP! Now, beyond that and MOST OF ALL I wanted the above info to
be informative and helpful to all, I will mention my chips IF you desire
more power, do not read on if you don not like an advertisement. The cost
for the initial 3 years of chip testing (those who own one of my chips
notice a lot of the hidden benefits and improvements beyond extra power) and
the continued search for more improvements will never be paid back for me,
such things as all the test equipment I have ($2K dual SRAM chip
emulator/$3K laptop to run it on, another laptop $800/Diacom Plus Data
Logger Software $600+$160 update, EPROM burner and eraser $400 and pc to run
burner on/$400, Wide-Band o2 sensor (used to be thousands so I rented them,
now I own one that is much more affordable), remote knock sensor/fuel
pressure/boost/injector duty cycle display......all these items and a shit
load of time testing and retesting these first chips on MANY TGPs in those 3
years confirming the consistency of intended results on tuning. That
tuning was done in this state (hot humid 90+ degree down to 30 below and no
humidity) altitude sea level up to 1,500, as well as testing on TGPs in
other states with their variations in altitude, climate, gas quality/octane
(93 to 94 in some states, 89 in high altitude states, good gas and
oxygenated gas), state of tune (engine with 80K miles or 180+ miles) and
other such systemic variations, all these behind-the-scenes investments of
time and money (and favors to the many who let me use their TGP as test
mules) should show there is no price that will pay those efforts back. Then
I sell the most expensive TopGun 160 chip for $190 plus $85 for the new
MEMCAL I solder my chip onto so there are no risks or delays getting the
chip into the car, and the owner then has his or her stock chip to swap back
in should anyone think a chip can cause problems by itself (NEVER heard of
it yet, still listening though ;-). Obviously my time will never be paid
back and seldom is for someone taking on this type of project, custom chips
from truly competent aftermarket tuners like Z-Industries (Ron Zimmer, who
would not even tackle this chip back in 1990 no matter how much money I
offered, its the amount of time to invest!!) and others typically charge
$500 to $800 or more for thoroughly tuned custom chips, that only work on
that owners car and no ones else's.
Well, another mini-novel as some have termed my info-replies, hope it was
worth your time to read it all.
Jeff M
courtesey Chris A
sorry guys i guess i came off the wrong way i wanted to use a boost controller to get rid of boost not gain it. I wasn't planning on trying to run 10+ psi with it. Espically not without a chip which i plan on buying. I guess i didn't really think about the computer not being able to control boost then. But then again i was going to set the boost at 7.5 max and leave it there so it wouldn't need computer retard right? ( i could be wrong ). My reason for wondering if there was cheap and practical reason for doing this was to A: Get better gas milage when accerating, B: to help reduce wear on the engine, and C: breathe easier when i can't find premium. I guess my first question should have been Should i get a boost controller and if they are 800 dollars i'd say not. That's why i asked you guys first, sorry to confuse you or upset you about some other idiot who's trying to blow up their tgp. It was not my intention.
ok stupid question time. what is the difference between PROM, memcal, chip, eeprom, etc? i've also noticed that the lowest octane gas here in Wyo is 85. is this because of the high elevations? (i'm sitting at 7200 ft right now - proabably much much higher than anyone else here).
joshua
memcal is your chip, what we mean usually by chip is one Jeff has worked on it tells you car how to run. Prom i do belive is the slots that the memcal plugs into and eprom i can't help you with. Yes it must be because of higher elavation because the lowest in iowa is 87.
I said it once, I'll say it again.
Jeff Middaugh is a GOD! :twisted:
Quote from: malibuoldsok stupid question time. what is the difference between PROM, memcal, chip, eeprom, etc? i've also noticed that the lowest octane gas here in Wyo is 85. is this because of the high elevations? (i'm sitting at 7200 ft right now - proabably much much higher than anyone else here).
joshua
I dunno about 85, I see it on the east coast as well. As for the terms....
PROM=Programmable read only memory
usually erased with a UV light
EEPROM = eltrically eraseable PROM
MEMCAL=The assembly of the PROM and Knock circuit that plugs into the ECM.
CHIP= a common term applied to the programming/code removable portion of the ECM. Older cars the PROM was directly removed, where as the MEMCAL is a newer design.
At the risk of getting crusified, I run a manual boost controller, have for the past 6 or 7 years, and am running a basicallly stock chip, not one from Jeff M. And yes i have knock retard when boosting, so far car is still running strong. But to really answer your question, i just replaced my bleeder type with a ball and spring type, got it off of ebay for $20, works very well, i try to run the boost to the limit before fuel cut off. Especially since you want to run less, you should have no problem adding one of these simple, cheap controllers and tuning it down.
just my 2 cents