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MODIFICATIONS => Chip Tuning => Topic started by: Tooky on November 28, 2005, 12:02:20 AM

Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: Tooky on November 28, 2005, 12:02:20 AM
I'm looking for a patch/hack that will stream Wideband O2 0-5v output into the stock TGP ECM and pipe it into the ALDL datalog stream..  I know that someone has already put in the effort to make this, and I'm extremely anxious to get a copy.  I'm even willing to contribute some fund$ to help with the costs/time that programming this project must have taken.

In http://www.tgpforums.com/tgp/viewtopic.php?p=17158#17158, Jeff M wrote:
Quote from: Jeff MActually most loggers have great features, the one I use has been modified to run a wideband feed so I can log actual air/fuel matched up with rpm and map or any other parameter, does the Datamaster do that yet :wink:
But unfortunately I emailed Jeff about a week ago and still haven't heard back from him.  I also saw this post http://www.tgpforums.com/tgp/viewtopic.php?t=1617&highlight=wideband where Mick from GMPCM mentioned making one for the 8F code but that was 2 years ago and Mick is also M.I.A. along with his www.gmpcm.com website that's been down for about a week.  When it was up - no '727 8F wideband patch to be seen.

I suspect that this patch is only in the hands of a few tuners, that's why I mentioned my willingness to pay for it.  How about it guys??  Please contact me!
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: mars on November 28, 2005, 09:46:33 PM
Although I am very interested in this patch, I am quite sure it doesn't exist yet...

I will (finally) have WB02 data in the summer to aid my tunning...  Would be GREAT to see it in the datamaster logs...
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: Tooky on November 29, 2005, 12:35:35 PM
Quote from: marsAlthough I am very interested in this patch, I am quite sure it doesn't exist yet...
What makes you "quite" sure it doesn't exist? :?

Jeff has mentioned it at least twice, here is the second place: http://www.turbograndprix.com/selected_aluminum_60_degree_chev.htm
QuoteCustom tuned ECM, already setup for wide-band o2 patch into the ECM and on to the scan tool for being able to record/log runs showing rpm, boost and actual A/F Ratio all at the same time on the screen.
:?:

Perhaps he is on vacation; I am so anxious to get the Wideband stuff rolling! 8)

PS: If you take a look at http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/WB_hacs/ you can see that Wideband patch is already available for our 727/730 ECM..  Just not our specific code. :oops:
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: skalor on November 29, 2005, 01:46:38 PM
Dammit, now you got me interested in this.   :P


So far I've looked at the links you posted and downloaded a WBO2 $8D binary and associated files.  Here's is what the text file states as far as ECM connections.  
QuoteVout from DIY-EFI WB kit should be connected
to Pin A3 (TPS2, A/D channel 0) on the
1227730 ECM.  (This same BIN can be used in the
underhood {vette} 1227727 by using pin C18)

The WB AFR is displayed in the "Commanded AFR"
field of the ALDL stream, so it should be
able to be read by AND scan tool/package.  The
Voltage-to-AFR lookup table was calibrated to
the published table to within +/- 0.5%.

Last Updated 03-Feb-03

Now, after looking at this link below I think it can be wired the same way stated above for the '727 using pin C18.  It's kinda blurry but I think C18 isn't taken.  I'll look in my TGP Manual when I get home to double check.  I could be wrong as the schematic is really hard to read.  
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/manuals/1227730/31v-1.jpg

There is also this diagram:
http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/quadplugecm.html
Which was linked from here:
http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/p4xref.html#1227727


That's all I've found so far in the few minutes I looked at it, but I'll be reasearching more in the next couple days.  Also, I think we should take this to www.thirdgen.org as this is probably over our heads, and there are a lot of guys over there that know their stuff.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: Tooky on November 29, 2005, 02:00:41 PM
I actually contacted one of the Wideband hack authors about 6 months ago but got no response.  I just attempted again, we'll see what happens.  One way or another , we will accomplish this, regardless of anything that stands in our way!   :lol:  :shock:  8)
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: skalor on November 29, 2005, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: TookyCatI actually contacted one of the Wideband hack authors about 6 months ago but got no response.  I just attempted again, we'll see what happens.  One way or another , we will accomplish this, regardless of anyone who stands in our way!   :lol:  :shock:  8)

I actually just emailed the guy in the link you provided.   :P

I was just reading on thirdgen.org about this and it seems like it would be a lot easier to bypass the algorithm and just refererence the voltage directly rather then trying to convert it to an AFR.  From what I've seen is that the DIY_EFI WB is not linear and most others are linear so the patch is not generic.  I think that just having the 0-5v signal in the datastream would be good enough.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298357&highlight=WB+o2+patch
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: flybynite on November 29, 2005, 02:12:44 PM
If I had a pinout for 8f 727 I could possibly help you.I hav been a member of thirdgen.org for several years,yes there are some guys in there that could make this as easy as cookin eggs.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: skalor on November 29, 2005, 02:14:30 PM
I scan my schematics and post them tomorrow as I don't have a working scanner at home right now.   :roll:  8)
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: TurboGTU on November 29, 2005, 10:54:00 PM
What were the changes to the code from the syty or F-body code to make it WB readable? Is it just for datalog..or is it usable for the BL?
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: skalor on December 01, 2005, 08:11:14 AM
Here are the two pinout diagrams and I was wrong about C18 not being used.
http://www.gmv6.org/images/TGP/LG5pinout1.jpg
http://www.gmv6.org/images/TGP/LG5pinout2.jpg
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: flybynite on December 01, 2005, 09:48:48 AM
Seems like to me you could use any pinnout location you desire.Such as C11-C13-C19 etc.The hard part is makin the bin read the new input and push it through the existing DESIRED AIR FUEL RATIO to a laptop or scan tool.The cool thing is you have AFR at every RPM and KPA.Just save the data and use it to help your next burn.It would make the tuning process go buy a whole lot quicker!
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: TGPilot on December 01, 2005, 10:54:19 AM
Wouldn't we need to disect the internals of the ECM to make sure those pins actually go to something? Or are all of these "empty" pins running into the ECM...just not used? 8)
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: flybynite on December 01, 2005, 11:59:07 AM
Ummm good question!I ASSUMED all the ports had the 0-5v we would need.But have come to find out they dont.C13 would be the one to use.Checked my repinning table for 730(F-body)it was used for TPS signal to the ECM 0-5v.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: TGPilot on December 01, 2005, 02:46:42 PM
Here is the actual chip layout...

http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/quadplugecm.html
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: flybynite on December 02, 2005, 08:22:58 AM
Looked over spreadsheet,what about C21 or A14.I,m not really sure.If you turn off the egr could you use pin C18 like the vette(8D)?
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: flybynite on December 02, 2005, 11:42:58 AM
Also found that syclones 8) are useing pin F14 and A3 for there wbo2 stuff.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: TGPilot on December 02, 2005, 12:41:18 PM
I am an idiot when it comes to this...but what is required to make it work? A WB02 sensor and then the port in the ECM to plug it into to monitor? Then you would have to assign that specific port to be seen by the datalogging software you are using?

Like I said I am not educated in this so if you could break it down to somewhat lamens terms it would be greatly appreciated... :wink:  8)
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: flybynite on December 02, 2005, 02:35:46 PM
The wbo2 is completly independent.ECM still uses nbo2.The wbo2 is placed downstream from the nbo2(mine is before the cat).On my TGP AFR is displayed in the cockpit beside the boost gauge.THE GOAL is to reroute this info into the ECM and have it sent to the ALDL stream through the DESIRED AIR FUEL RATIO and you could read it in real time(when car is running).This means you can have AFR,SPARK ADVANCE and KNOCK RETARD etc on your datalogging software saved four your next burn.It also would make tuning VE tables a whole lot easier.The hard part is modifing the bin.The bin reads the voltage from the wbo2 and converts it to AFR and pushes it into ALDL stream.I THINK!Sombody correct me if I'm wrong.I would also THINK your tuning editor would have to be modifed to to be able to adjust your voltages to get wbo2 dead on(identical with the gauge)Your dataloging software should be just fine.I use tunerpro rt(real time)and it has the DESIRED AIR FUEL RATIO option all ready there you just half to route the wb stuff there.Hope this helps.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: TGPilot on December 02, 2005, 08:00:41 PM
Much more clear now! Damn you guys are teaching me plenty in such a short period of time!!

-Kenny 8)
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: skalor on December 05, 2005, 07:31:57 AM
EDIT:  I had some binary files posted but I decided to take them down until testing was complete.   Also, please email or PM if you downloaded them so that I can keep track of who to get in touch with in case there is a fatal problem with the binary.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: mars on December 05, 2005, 02:23:19 PM
That is awsome!  let us know how it works.!!  Oh crap, I just remembered I have the 7730 ECM...  wonder if this will work.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: skalor on December 06, 2005, 06:04:36 AM
I'm pretty sure it could work for the '730 as they are very similar, but only testing will tell for sure.
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: Craig Moates on December 11, 2005, 05:59:02 PM
I've created patches for both 165 (6E) and 730 (8D) code in the past to allow wideband data to come in the unused pins. It's not too bad really. You just need to play with the datalogging practices to capture it. I have a patch that I made running in my own 730-based car, and it works great. I put together a custom datalogging definition file that does exactly what I want in terms of lookup, just straight linear from 9-19AFR with 0-5v (0-255 integer).

Some folks have gone so far as to use lookup tables within the code and then render the AFR directly as a replacement for values like 'Target AFR'. In my case, I wanted to hang on to the target AFR as an ALDL useful value and just add one. But it's pretty tricky to add and subtract variables from the packet. So I brought it in under the guise of 'Fuel Pump Voltage'.

So, if y'all are looking to bring this to the light of day, I'll be glad to help if I can. If you're already down the road, that's cool too. Just let me know.

Best regards,
-Craig
Title: Looking for Wideband O2 Datalogging to 8F code patch
Post by: mars on December 14, 2005, 11:27:36 AM
Definetly interested into finding out more.

I have just bought the innovate motorsports LC-1, and would like to get it to log right into datamaster (or any other logging software where I could aslo capture the ALDL data...)

If I could get a 0 - 255 value to come in on the fuel pump voltage, that would be awsome.  I don't have a clue where to start though...  If you guys figure it out, let me know.  I am all over this.