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GENERAL => How do I? => Topic started by: LukeZ34 on January 16, 2006, 12:36:53 PM

Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 16, 2006, 12:36:53 PM
So what is involved in replacing this badboy?
I'm not sure if the one on our TGP has even been replaced at all in it's entire life. Are they prone to failing? What symptoms do they show when they are failing?
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Prospeeder on January 16, 2006, 01:41:18 PM
3.1 MPFI Turbo or not do not have any LIM problems what so ever, i dont think iv ever herd of a 3.1 MPFI every having LIM failure. 3100 and 3400s up to 2002 1/2 had the problem, GM corrected it that year and no more failures after that
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: dbtk2 on January 16, 2006, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Prospeeder3.1 MPFI Turbo or not do not have any LIM problems what so ever, i dont think iv ever herd of a 3.1 MPFI every having LIM failure. 3100 and 3400s up to 2002 1/2 had the problem, GM corrected it that year and no more failures after that

My STE and my sisters old '93 GP LE both had LIM gasket failures.....but I do agree that its not a common problem so if it hasn't been replaced its not something to worry about.

Shawn
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: GangstGP on January 16, 2006, 02:43:34 PM
Irs a good thing to do if you want to clean off all the crud inside. better off getting it hot tanked then wasting cans of carb cleaner.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Invasion1 on January 16, 2006, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: dbtk2
Quote from: Prospeeder3.1 MPFI Turbo or not do not have any LIM problems what so ever, i dont think iv ever herd of a 3.1 MPFI every having LIM failure. 3100 and 3400s up to 2002 1/2 had the problem, GM corrected it that year and no more failures after that

My STE and my sisters old '93 GP LE both had LIM gasket failures.....but I do agree that its not a common problem so if it hasn't been replaced its not something to worry about.

Shawn

Agreed not a common problem but I have seen a few 3.1's with a LIM leak where coolant blows into the engine....(nasty) and where air sucks in due to a gasket failure.

a boosted 3.1 would have boost loss if this were an issue....

what spured your concerns Luke?
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 16, 2006, 03:54:22 PM
Quote from: Invasion1what spured your concerns Luke?

Well, the first thing that concerned me was finding traces of milky whitness when I changed the oil last.
I haven't done a compression test yet, but it's on the list of things to do.
I was just curious as if a leaking LIM could cause coolant to enter the engine oil somewhere.
Either way, I need to find out why the oil was like that. I'm going to spend the evening working on the car. I ordered the vacuum line kit from GM for it as the old ones were in terrible shape.

This car has so many gremlins it's not even funny.
Brakes need bled
Charging system is unstable
All 4 shocks need changed
Loud pop coming from the tranny on a R to D shift
Still a fast idle

The money is finally coming in, so maybe I can get this thing running good soon.  8)
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Prospeeder on January 16, 2006, 04:09:28 PM
you can still get vacuum kits for these cars??? How much was it and the p/n
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: R Dubya on January 16, 2006, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: Prospeeder3100 and 3400s up to 2002 1/2 had the problem, GM corrected it that year and no more failures after that

Not the case wise one.. I've seen at least 5 03-04 Grand Ams, Aztecs, etc in the last 3 months needing intakes.  GM didn't fix shit, they are the exact same as the factory 6 years ago..
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Invasion1 on January 16, 2006, 04:40:13 PM
yes you can have coolant leaking into the engine if one of the gaskets is bad or failing.

ether that or....dare i say it headgasket  :oops:
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Prospeeder on January 16, 2006, 04:45:29 PM
Quote from: RW89TGP
Quote from: Prospeeder3100 and 3400s up to 2002 1/2 had the problem, GM corrected it that year and no more failures after that

Not the case wise one.. I've seen at least 5 03-04 Grand Ams, Aztecs, etc in the last 3 months needing intakes.  GM didn't fix shit, they are the exact same as the factory 6 years ago..

Really?! i as under the impression they fixed it for 02 1/2, crappy deal
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 16, 2006, 04:52:31 PM
Yea, the kit is just the lines from the TB to the closest components.
Here's a pic of what I got:
(http://www.lukez34.com/hostedpics/tgp/tgpvackit.jpg)

I'm worried that it's a headgasket issue, but I'd like to hold out some hope that it could be a leaky LIM gasket. I just need to do some more looking in to it, and do a compression check to find out for sure.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Invasion1 on January 16, 2006, 04:53:02 PM
QuoteReally?! i as under the impression they fixed it for 02 1/2, crappy deal

then your original post should perhaps say....

Quote3.1 MPFI Turbo or not do not have any LIM problems what so ever, i dont think iv ever herd of a 3.1 MPFI every having LIM failure. 3100 and 3400s up to 2002 1/2 had the problem, I though GM corrected it that year and no more failures after that.

:wink:
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Invasion1 on January 16, 2006, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: LukeZ34Yea, the kit is just the lines from the TB to the closest components.
Here's a pic of what I got:
(http://www.lukez34.com/hostedpics/tgp/tgpvackit.jpg)

I'm worried that it's a headgasket issue, but I'd like to hold out some hope that it could be a leaky LIM gasket. I just need to do some more looking in to it, and do a compression check to find out for sure.

Ya Luke thats it....i got one that same mess of tubes for mine and same part #

will fit fine.... :D

do you still have the clip that holds the rubber into the TB Vac Port?
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 16, 2006, 05:03:15 PM
Quote from: Invasion1

do you still have the clip that holds the rubber into the TB Vac Port?

Aw hell no..  :lol:
I wish I did, I can't push in to boost very far right now because the damn thing pops out!
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: GangstGP on January 16, 2006, 05:03:16 PM
Quote from: LukeZ34Yea, the kit is just the lines from the TB to the closest components.
Here's a pic of what I got:
(http://www.lukez34.com/hostedpics/tgp/tgpvackit.jpg)

I'm worried that it's a headgasket issue, but I'd like to hold out some hope that it could be a leaky LIM gasket. I just need to do some more looking in to it, and do a compression check to find out for sure.

I bought one of those and in like 3 years, the rubber couplings were shot. I ended up just getting vacu-tite fittings that were too small and cramming them on. It provided a way better fit than the factory harness. Especially the FPR fitting. the thing leaked like a siv.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: R Dubya on January 16, 2006, 06:14:21 PM
if you are losing coolant you would most likely smell it Luke, or you would know that it is leaking at least.  Is it low or has it been low on coolant in the last 3 months?  Could be the weather/cold causing condensation with the temperature dropped.  Maybe check the PCV valve if it hasn't been changed..  :?:
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Prospeeder on January 16, 2006, 06:38:26 PM
Quote from: LukeZ34
Quote from: Invasion1

do you still have the clip that holds the rubber into the TB Vac Port?

Aw hell no..  :lol:
I wish I did, I can't push in to boost very far right now because the damn thing pops out!

I still have that, lol!!
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Invasion1 on January 16, 2006, 07:17:09 PM
I think i have a few extras....

dunno if GM still carries them or if there on the discontinued list..

Maybe Ryan would know?
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 16, 2006, 07:50:50 PM
Last I heard they were discontinued. But if you have one, let me know how much I would owe you to send me one.
I don't think the rubber fitting on this new kit will be popping out anytime soon though. It's a pretty tight fit.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: R Dubya on January 16, 2006, 08:56:07 PM
from what GMpartsdirect.com say its still available.. I'm going to look into it tomorrow anyway, I will post any info I find.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: GangstGP on January 16, 2006, 10:21:22 PM
a thin film of black rtv silicone will stick it there for a while.

Or blue probly
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 16, 2006, 11:20:28 PM
I pulled the ECM fuse for about 10 minutes and finally got it to idle properly tonight, that is until it warmed up. All of a sudden the idle started going up and down, for a couple of minutes. It never stalled, but it came close a couple of times. It eventually evened out after a while, but idled slightly higher than it did earlier.
I ohmed the injectors at the harness by the ECM after shutting the car down, ended up with 4.5 ohms, and 4.4 ohms on each bank. I'm gonna ohm them tomorrow when their cold to see if there's a difference.

I've got a datamaster scan that shows exactly where it started acting up. Can someone view that and decipher what it's doing when it acts up?
http://www.lukez34.com/hostedpics/tgp/tgpidle2.uni
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: GangstGP on January 17, 2006, 11:33:11 AM
when it acts up, pull the plug and put it back in on the IAC motor.  they act up from time to time. If you need to replace it, its a dealer item for sure.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: R Dubya on January 17, 2006, 01:58:36 PM
so I checked today and 10114903 is still a good # so I'm going to order 3 or 4 of them just to have around for myself and maybe someone else.  I will post to see if they are still available after I order, sometimes you don't find out until they are ordered that they are disco.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Invasion1 on January 17, 2006, 04:29:55 PM
I will take a look at that UNI. file for ya Luke

if ya get a chance can you do 2 more for me?

one startup without touching the gas pedal for about a minute and then another one startup and then holding it as best you can at 2000 RPM with the pedal?

i can get a better idea that way but i will look at this one after supper for ya  8)

and before that i agree with GangstGP about the IAC and its avaliable aftermarket but i would go deal on it for quality purposes.

Ryan whats GM charge us commoners for those Plastic TB thingys?
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: R Dubya on January 17, 2006, 06:12:55 PM
let me sell it to you!!  :lol:   My cost is a little less than $14, so judging by the 1.6 rule I would say around $23.  Anyone want one? I may be able to help...  :wink:

first off let me see if they are still available.  post it tomorrow.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: Invasion1 on January 17, 2006, 06:38:58 PM
I will pass cause i have 2 extra  :wink:
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 17, 2006, 10:09:52 PM
Here's the next scan. The 2 runs are on this one file.
First run, I started it on a cold engine, let it run till I shut it off. Any changes to the idle were done by the car itself.

Second run, started the car, let it idle down, then held the throttle at 1900 RPM, and then pushed to 2000 RPM. I held the throttle constant and it did not move, all the changes you see in the idle while it was at 2000 RPM was done by the car, not by me.
After the high idle, I let it idle down, and kept my foot off of the pedal. Looking at the idle graph you can see where I let off the pedal, and where the car started acting up on it's own again almost instantly after it idled down.

WTF is up with this thing? Why does it spaz out like this?

http://www.lukez34.com/hostedpics/tgp/TGPidle_2runs.uni
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 18, 2006, 07:51:58 AM
I had to button the car back up this morning and drive it to work since Jess needs the Samurai this afternoon.
I did a scan on the drive to work.

The first 40 seconds the car idles around 2k RPM, TPS was showing a reading (5.1%) as the throttle being open, even though it wasn't.
Pulled the ECM fuse for about 15 seconds, put it back in, started the car up, TPS reading was Zero. (WTF?)
Drove the car to work.
It stalled once when I was a little over half way there. If you can zoom in on the Datamaster Graph you'll see at random places where while driving, the idle will dramatically drop a couple of times, but then recover with no problem even with your foot on the pedal. This is a typical scenario of driving around in this car, some weird shit always happens while driving.

I can't tell if these phantom problems are an electrical problem or a mechanical problem? I'm completely baffled.

http://www.lukez34.com/hostedpics/tgp/tgpdrive.uni
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: GangstGP on January 18, 2006, 11:04:23 AM
I cleaned the TB/EGR/IAC and it had a bad hair day 1 time after that, but it corrected itself.  I had to restart the car three times,wouldnt hold an idle then put it in reverse, limped backwards to its parking spot. came back later that day and ran great. It was an old IAC off my parts car. I had to take off the made in mexico one because I only use dealer or oem parts lately.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 20, 2006, 09:47:32 AM
This morning it ran just fine, not a single hiccup.

I'm gonna check the grounds this weekend. It beginning to sound like a flaky electrical issue.
Anyone got a diagram as to where all the grounds are located under the hood and on the block?
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 23, 2006, 08:05:02 PM
FINALLY!
So I've made some progress.
The stock radiator cap was shot, which was causing coolant to leak when it was under pressure. (Big puddle in the garage)

Also found out that the TPS wiring harness had a short in it. Right where the wires enter the blue rubber of the harness they were twisted and bulging. So I pulled it apart, hooked it up to the laptop, and jiggled the wires around, and sure as shit, the TPS readings in datamaster started going nuts. So I pulled the harness pins out, cut back the wire that was damaged, and resoldered them back together. The TPS readings are stable and reading at 0.0% and .57mv.

Thanks to the new vacuum line kit from GM, the car can do WOT runs now without blowing the Throttle body vacuum lines out.

The car runs 100% better, and the TPS wire fix also cured the car of a strange stumble while driving over 45mph in overdrive.

But unfortunatly, this isn't where the work ends. The car needs new struts in all 4 corners, and new strut mounts in the rear. The drivers side window motor needs a serious overhauling, and it needs new tires as well.
Anyway, thanks for everyone's advice!
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: TGPilot on January 23, 2006, 08:11:52 PM
Luke...

What are the proper voltage/readings for the TPS that should be seen in logging software? 8)
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 23, 2006, 08:26:08 PM
It should be exactly what I have now.

0.0%  &  .57mv (or slightly less)
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: TGPilot on January 23, 2006, 08:33:17 PM
0.0% = .57mv

What is 100% = mv?

Just looking for the full sweep voltages... 8)
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: LukeZ34 on January 23, 2006, 08:36:55 PM
100% is 4.5mv, I think. I know it's close to 5mv, but not quite.
Title: LIM Gasket
Post by: TGPilot on January 23, 2006, 08:41:27 PM
k...thanks man!

8)