Ok...so the TGP is still failing Emmisions tests here in Colorado. Even with the settings to Stock. It makes me laugh because the TGP is getting 400-450 miles to a tank, but on the dyno she is PIG rich and on the emissions test it is also showing real high HC and CO.
The TSTE passed emissions with flying colors, but the car barely gets 250-275 miles to a tank!
How the hell can a car be puking raw fuel out the tailpipe...but getting GREAT gas mileage? 28-30 MPG is pretty fickin good in my book for a TGP! :shock: :roll: 8)
Can't help ya with emissions :(
mainly because were exempt here in Northern Ontario :lol:
but that is really weird Kenny given the gas milage... :?
What condition is the cat in? I would just turn the timing way down, that should help pass emissions.
Shawn
You did replace the cat right? The one that was on the car when you bought it was the gutted stock one. I didn't know if you had replaced it yet or not.
Sounds to me like a injector(s) are stuck open, or a bad CAT. And dont anyone tell me that injectors dont stay stuck open. I just replaced some on my TGP. I pulled off the upper plenum, and I could hear them pissing away in my intake..
A cat converter will not pull down the readings I am getting on emissions! :wink: This thing is running goofy and I need to find out why. It just boggles my mind that the TSTE gets SHIT for mileage and passes with flying colors...yet the TGP is great for mileage and fails miserably.
My Spirit had no cat...nearly no emissions.
My Talon had no cat...passed with great numbers.
My Chev Pickup had no cat...perfect numbers.
I need to do some more logging to see what is and what isn't being seen by the ECM.
I had a similar problem last year and my buddy fudged it for me.This year when it failed I wonted to know why.After a few days of testing I found the car was in perfect working order.So I decided to start messin with the chip.I found that the code has a wide range of adujustabilty but for some reason the engineers left it on the rich side.What I did to correct my problem was to lower the idle ve table till my BL was arround 128-134(before it was 108)and my car passed with no problem.The upper ve table was also way off and had to be lowered to keep my TGP from running way to rich at wot.There are other ways to keep her from running rich but using the ve tables was the best way for me.Later
Ok...only tables I am seeing with VE listed are:
1). Base Pulse Volumetric Efficiency vs RPM and MAP
2). Base Pulse Volumetric Efficiency vs RPM & MAP
I am using TunerPro RT for my editing.
Am I in the right area?
If so what do I need to change and why am I changing (just so I can visualize the how's and why's).
If not...where should I be looking.
Thanks man!
-Kenny 8)
You are in the right area.The lower ve table is from 600-1800 rpm and the upper ve table is from 2400-6000 rpm.What I did was to get my TGP in closed loop at idle(you can make this happen faster by lowering the min temp for hot closed loop mode mine is at 35.36 deg c)when your in closed loop look at the block learn mine was at 108(way to rich)What I did was to lower the values(in the lower ve table 600-1800 rpm)from 20 kpa to 65 kpa and blended it in to match the untouched areas.That moved my block learn to 122 so i lowered them a lil more till i got arround 130ish.You will notice that your TGP will idle and run a whole lot smoother and off idle responce will be better.Hope this helps.Later
Ok...so in the graphs I see 3 axis:
1). RPM
2). 0 - 99.61
3). 20 - 200
I am assuming 20-200 is Kpa (pressure) sensed at the MAP? 200Kpa = 2 bar
So what is the axis value 0 - 99.61?
As a rule of thumb think of KPA as TPS%.On 2 bar map 50% tps(half throttle)=100kpa.100%tps(wot)=200kpa.(my TGP idles at 30-40kpa when warm)Do a search on Thirdgen.org for this post MAP VOLTAGE/KPA CORRELATION.This will help convert map volts to KPA.Once you have figured out what KPA and rpm you are idleing at thats where you start.Now the values from 0-99.61 If you RAISE these values you will RICHEN up the fuel mixture and if you LOWER these values it will LEAN out fuel mixture.My TGP was runnin way to rich so I lowered the values alot in the 20-65 kpa 600-1800 rpm range(20kpa 600-1800rpm were zero)and then blended them in nice an smooth with the untouched values.
Are you using a WB02 to tell where you are or just what the ECM is telling you on datalogging?
During my Dyno Run she went off the scale RICH from 2000 RPM on up.
Now looking at the graphs for the VE tables...the lower graph is nice and smooth with a ramp up...but the upper RPM graph looks like the mountain peaks I look at every morning here in Colorado Springs...crazy spikes and valley's...not even close to being smooth.
During my logging when making changes what or where am I looking for results? Obviously if I was emulating it would be super easy to make these changes on the fly and listen for stumbles and such...but not to that point yet.
I APPRECIATE YOUR SPEEDY RESPONSES AND HELP! :D
I've only messed with the VE tables where long term showed rich conditions in the ALDL monitor. If its with the trottle closed..then Idle VE tables(I've eliminated mine), if its at WOT...then Main VE table, if its in between...then VE table vs Map and RPM. REmmeber...after a while the car learns and leans out the mix..thats why you get good gas mileage..but when its dead cold after a long night or when it is restarted after a while..it will run rich...or lean untill block learn kicks in to fix the problem.
I try to keep the engine at steady rpms and climb slowly to see results. Then full throttle from a rolling start in 3rd...that way my logs don't look like pikes and peaks of lines that you cannot read right...and block learn thats out of whack.
Ok...so
If the car is sitting warmed up at idle the BLM is 128.
As soon as you crack open the throttle or bring it up to the 2500RPM required for the upper end of the emissions test it goes to 115 for BLM.
On the highway all the way up here it was 112 for BLM.
My ECM speedo is way off. Showing 1/2 of what the HUD and GPS is showing. Will need to correct that, but as far as the BLM I need more reading info to learn what it is all about. Anyone have links to good reading?
Yes I have a wbo2 and a nbo2.My wb is in another car right now so i'm useing a heated nb for wot tune.Before I took out my wb I confirmed that 850mvolts was ARROUND 12.5 to1(this only APPLIES to my TGP)There is also a conversion chart that converts o2 mvolt to AFR but I cant remember where I saw it.For idle and cruise I look at the block learn(how much the computer is correcting the fuel mixture)The less work the computer has to do the faster it will react.The block learn also has a minunim and maxinum and if ur close to 1 of these your car will run like a brown terd.After I massaged my upper and lower ve table(126-134 block learn at idle and cruise)I noticed better off idle responce smoother running better gas mileage and most important I passed NC EMMISIONS!!My upper ve table needed the most work and took a long time to get it right.My advice to someone with little or no experience with ve tables would be to start at idle and and get the block learn as close to 128 as possible.Once you've figured that out do the other rpms the same way.Goto www.thirdgen.org DIY prom and go through the stickies for some good info.Also any time you see 128 block learn at idle check to make sure your in closed loop(thats why I use a heated o2)Later
You are helping a ton. You are eligible for 2 years free membership to this forum! :wink: :lol:
thirdgen.org has TONS of reading info! That is what I like to see so I can learn easier.
Thanks 8)
Sweeeet!! :lol:
Just to make sure of things here. I am Currently helping a freind of mine get his car to pass emissions. he thought all was good but was getting shit numbers. His EGR Vacume line had a crack in it. He replaced the line and it cut his emissions in half.... He still cant pass, but instead of being 120 points off, he is now only 1 - 2 points off.
The vacuum line or the exhaust gases tube? 8)
Quote from: TGPilotThe vacuum line or the exhaust gases tube? 8)
Well my freinds was the vacume line (4.3 chevy silverado). Althou, If either one is cracked, I dont think it would be good. Especially if it was the gas return hose, as that would leak into the cabin, and give him a nice high of sorts...