I've been looking in to replacing all 6 injectors in our TGP since most of them are original, and are reaching the end of their lives.
Some reading on here shows that new L36 injectors have the same flow rate as the LG5 injectors, but they won't allow the fuel rail to bolt back down. (no biggie)
Another thread I came across was 1996 Non SC Rivera Injectors were also a match.
I found these on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-3-8-Non-Supercharged-Fuel-Injectors-P-N-280150973_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33554QQitemZ8032730967QQtcZphoto
Those look like like the original LG5 injectors, so one could assume the fuel rail could bolt down easily with these.
Would these be the correct flow rate? Is there a chart that cross references the part numbers with the flow rate?
Hey Luke
here is where i have bought my last set of #22 injectors from
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_Sets.asp
I have the 3800 Bosch style ones in my Turbo CS and there almost a perfect replacement (tad bit rich). i leaned it out on the chip so its good now.
the first set i got when i assembled the engine were #24 Bosch style, well those were bought from just some dude on ebay claiming they were new.
they were way to rich and had 3 leaking.
if your going to buy them make sure its from a trusted seller, i reccomend the guy i linked above 100%
stands by his sales 100%
here is his Ebay store
http://stores.ebay.com/fuel-injectors
here is what i bought from him
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-GM-3-8L-231-K-Bosch-Ford-22lb-Fuel-Injectors-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33554QQitemZ7997396000
hope that helps
Dave
Thanks Davis.. I saw those injectors on ebay a while back when I was searching, but was unsure of their relaibility.
If you are having good luck with them, then that may be the way to go.
Dave...as an example...these are the ones you are talking about?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-GM-3-8L-231-K-Bosch-Ford-22lb-Fuel-Injectors-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33554QQitemZ7997396000
ya guys those are the ones i have in my Turbo CS
very good and a bit rich for the application but its possable to tune them down witrh chip work :wink:
i have mine almost dead on now
the ones in Kennys link are the exact ones i bought from that seller
highly stand by his site and ebay store!!
lemme know if ya need more convincing :P
Quote from: Invasion1lemme know if ya need more convincing :P
Will you hold my hand while I order them? I'm scared! :oops:
:lol: :lol: I will be ordering a set of these next week. Should just do it now...but I have so much crap going on right now that if they arrive too soon I will lose focus on what "needs" to be done. :wink: 8)
So if I buy them for our TGP, will I have to lean them out some? I have no access to chip buring hardware.
I just want to make sure I won't be creating more work for myself by installing these.
I tell you what Luke...I will get a set of them and work the chip to the proper settings. Then you can send me an EEPROM chip and I will burn it over for you. You have logging software so we can see the settings for the lower altitude and work it a touch more if we need.
I still need to get Josh his chip back...but I may be picking something up from him pretty quick.
Anyway...we can make it work for you. 8)
Quote from: LukeZ34So if I buy them for our TGP, will I have to lean them out some? I have no access to chip buring hardware.
I just want to make sure I won't be creating more work for myself by installing these.
you will run fine with those installed but yes to "maximize" performance and get the BLM's within the target area you will need to lean out the code on the chip a small bit.
there about as close as it could be without buying the OEM style Multi-Tec Injectors for $250 a pop from the dealer :shock:
so what im saying is you can run those #22 injectors fine with them being a bit rich without issue, if ya take Kenny up on his offer later he can lean it out so you can get the most out of the engine. :wink:
I would offer but the crazy x-rays and scanners at the Canada/USA border seems to wipe out the Atmel AT29C256 chips i use :x
sold a few for Jay (god910) since his retirement :wink: and if i send them via major courier company (FEDEX, UPS, DHL) they seem to be corrupted then the users try them.
i get them back and redo them, and if i send them snail mail there ok.
we could do that if ya want but the wait time back and fourth is harsh :(
I may just go ahead and pickup a set of them then.
What all needs changed in the chip? What info/patterns/numbers should I be looking at while logging?
I appreciate the offers on modifying the chip. I'd love to do it myself, but I'd have to have someone walk me through it. I wouldn't want to be TOO much of a burden on someone. 8)
Where's the best place to buy the EEPROM's?
It is no burden. In fact Adam (flybynite) has helped and taught me a bunch. This is what the Chip Tuning section is for my friend...to be completely lost and have folks help you along the learning curve. It is a BLAST once you start to learn and see the effects as you go. :wink:
Chips are here (http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=38/)
Logging and Chip editing here (http://www.supportfitness.com/mark/tunerpro/downloadApp.htm) ...RT is the one you want!
I use this Chip Burning station (http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3081)
To datalog with RT I use Moates' products...Very durable and easy to use with a USB port.
Here (http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=49) and Here (http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=50)
I do not know about Datamaster...but with TunerPro RT you can send the log file to another person with TunerPro via email and they can then replay the log on their PC. Select any parameter they wish to view. It is not a matter of sending people xcel spread sheets and trying to figure out what is hapening. With RT you can see any parameter you want at any second of the recording.
I personally love the program! I have used Datamaster and honestly was not too impressed. :wink: 8)
Oh, I was just thinking of using ford 19lbs pintle style injectors. Fuel pressure of our cars and the stock code should bring them within stock Multec 22lbs specs.
Quote from: TurboGTUOh, I was just thinking of using ford 19lbs pintle style injectors. Fuel pressure of our cars and the stock code should bring them within stock Multec 22lbs specs.
The Ford 19# injectors equate to about 21.1lbs on our fuel pressure.
I was the one that put the L36 injectors from a 96 buick rivy. they do have the plastic tip, and have had no clearance issues with the LIM. They were also double slotted for diferent fuel rails. Not sure why this was. But I set it up on the top slot, and they bolted down perfectly fine with no leaks at all. My fuel milage went up about 1 mpg, and, in my opinion, the power also went up. Recently I have heard that the injectors I used are not the 22 LBS flow rate, but in fact are 21.2. I have not been able to verify this at all. in either case, Go with what works for you, and good luck.
EDIT: The injectors mentioned earlier in this thread are the same ones I used, althou mine are not PINK!!!! LOL But for the price, I would get those, and I am now watching that auction.. THANKS!!
What settings/files do I need to get TunerPro RT setup to do data logging with a Mastach ALDL adapter?
The car is acting up again.. I want to see how I like the new software.
I sent an email to Mark Mansur asking about TunerPro RT working with a Mastach... 8)
Awesome, let me know when you hear something back.
QuoteIf the Mastach cable is just a simple ALDL interface, then yes it should work fine.
Not as difinitive as I would have liked but if he has not used a Mastach then I guess you will be the guinee pig.
If you go into Tools > Preferences > ALDL/Emulation it has the areas with which you need to select your ports and cable type. Obviously there is not a Mastach selection in there...but try each one and see what happens.
Hope it works! 8)
For what program is that cable for? My understanding is that most if not all ALDL cables had a MAX232 chip or transister array. So basicly universal.
He is curious about TunerPro RT.
Luke...if you have a laptop just load the RT program and see what happens man. If datamaster works for me with default settings I would think RT will work for you. Just go in the area I was telling you about to make sure the Com port is set properly. :wink: 8)
Yea, that's what I planned on doing.
I can't get driving logs with it yet because my hard drive died on my Dell laptop. So I've got my old Thinkpad for a backup now whose battery lasts a whopping 5 minutes off of AC power. :lol:
I'll be trying mine shortly, with a 232 MAX chip adapter that I made myself.
I also have the Wideband patch so that I can log the wideband data right through Tunerpro using a pin on my ecm.
And it was all free. haha. Cept for the Innovate LC-1 that is.
So you have a patch made to datalog the W/B in TunerPro????? :shock:
Are you going to share? :twitch:
oh hell yes, I will.
I thought you guys already had this and were being greedy...? Gimme a sec. I'll host the files.
K, I made revisions to a the .xdf, take the new one if you wan't or don't no matter.
Start with that .bin file
Check the readme file there.
http://www.domesticcrew.com/marvin/Cavalier/Chips/Tuner_pro_junk/
A guy on 60degreev6 made it for me... I haven't tested it yet.
This guy is doing it, why doesn't he share?
Quote from: Jeff M
:roll: I can't believe it either, that the Datamaster is the only one out there to use :lol: Actually most loggers have great features, the one I use has been modified to run a wideband feed so I can log actual air/fuel matched up with rpm and map or any other parameter, does the Datamaster do that yet :wink:
Anyways, I am real anxious for someone to try it out, best part is that it's free.
I thought I could split this post and put it in the Chip Tuning section. Didn't find the option so I made a new announcement about it!
Little info. Here are two sites that list most every injector. 99% of these on the list wiil fit your fuel rail. There may be an odd foriegn thats a rt angle feed which obviously won't work. The new multech will require adding an extra slot. Easily done, you can use a hacksaw.
http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/injectors-basic-info.xls
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH
Your 280150973 is on both list as 18#. I think thats too small for are injectors. I think ours are 22#
Use these list to pick your size and then go to ebay and type in the #. or find them on ebay and check the list. Don't buy from ebay w/o knowing the p/n and checking these list. I have found both of them to be right on and I have bought a few sets of injectors. :roll:
If its a 280 150 it will fit. All the fords on stans page will fit. If your wondering ask me.
Hope this helps.
Jud
Thanks Jud! 8)
I finally got TunerPro to work with my Mastach cable, and was able to log a couple of files.
THe car has been intermittantly acting up again (as usual). Idle is everywhere, smells rich as hell, etc. I attached 2 files of the 2 logs I recorded. One was after an idle learn, and other one was during an idle learn. I'd appreciate it if anyone could look at these and tell me what is up with this thing.
Looking now... 8)
Well it is obvious which one is the different IAC motor! :o
tgp3 shows a nice clean level Idle with what is normal BLM's. Now mine does the same showing good BLM values but failing emissions tests...so I do not know. :-\
I am not sure what chip version you are running, but in AZRC the desired Idle Speed is 975 from 44*C to 104*C. Yours is showing at 937 as desired at 77*C. I do not know if the ENGINE SPEED AT IDLE vs TEMP IN NEUTRAL value in the chip is different between versions or if yours is just wiggy? ;)
The first log showed the IAC steps at a high value and it never recovered keeping your idle way to high! To me I would think that means either the stepper motor is frozen/stuck, the IAC motor is not responsive (broken), or that the voltage going to the stepper motor is not there. If the logging software sees a value then I would think it should be responding and should reduce the steps commanded by the ECM so that would likely rule out the last two possibilities. When you look at the very beginning of both logs you see the IAC make a full sweep open and closed then back to a neutral position for startup. So I am a bit confused as to why the first log does not recover from such a high idle RPM.
I looked over both ur logs and the second tgp3 seemed to be pretty good.I did notice that ur INT was falling quickly to the 113-115ish real fast after CL was enabled.Try leaning out(remove fuel)from ur idle and see if you can get ur INT as close as possable to 128ish to match ur BL.My GUESS is that ur runnin rich at idle and when the o2 senses that the ECM will pull the IAC open slightly to try to keep the car from stalling or correct the rich condition.That is the MAIN reason(other than mechanical)that some of you guys complain about the idle surging.I fixed all my idle issues with a lil fine tuning. ;D Good luck! later
ook bringing up the old, im confused, will the Riviera 3.8 Injectors work fine with no modifications to get them to bolt down? I see one saying they had 2 slots and went in great and another saying you need a freaking hacksaw...i need to know wich ones to get so i can save up, my TGPs injectors are totally fucked
The Yellow Tops I bought had the two row slots...they slide right into place without modification.
The yellow tops have the exact same design and body as the Riv or stock GP injectors.
i cannnot find those Ford Yellow tops on the fiveomotorsports webpage
email him and ask if there avaliable.......
You can call Bruce also...great guy! :icon_cool:
I think what he is talking about is the tips (for the hacksaw bit). Some say you have to cut off the plastic tip. Others say you dont. I didnt on mine, and it works flawlessly.