What is the best way to test my injectors for a fuel leak when pressurized? Remove the rail, unbolt the hoses from the LIM and turn on the key? I am concerned with my hard starts when warm that I have an injector or 6 leaking fuel and causing my hard start.
Wish these cars were OBDII. You can fire each injector separately and watch them bleed down.
Old technology. :laugh:
You could attach a fuel pressure gauge to the schrader valve on the rail, and then turn the ignition on for a few seconds to pressurize the system. Turn the ignition back off again and just watch the guage to see if it drops. At least then you'll know if you have leaking injectors or not.
With the proper GM diag tools you can do the same with these. Only problem is finding the tool anymore! :icon_rolleyes:
Honestly I do not know how to test these without the diag tool though. For all intensive purposes...you can get a set of injectors for $170. Replace them and don't worry about them anymore. ;) :icon_cool:
Quote from: 93luminaz34 on April 06, 2006, 08:00:56 PM
You could attach a fuel pressure gauge to the schrader valve on the rail, and then turn the ignition on for a few seconds to pressurize the system. Turn the ignition back off again and just watch the guage to see if it drops. At least then you'll know if you have leaking injectors or not.
or know that you have a bad FPR that is bleeding back. :icon_biggrin:
Quote from: TGPilot on April 06, 2006, 08:02:39 PM
With the proper GM diag tools you can do the same with these. Only problem is finding the tool anymore! :icon_rolleyes:
Honestly I do not know how to test these without the diag tool though. For all intensive purposes...you can get a set of injectors for $170. Replace them and don't worry about them anymore. ;) :icon_cool:
who knows I may be able to get my hands on that at work. Where are these mystical $170 injectors? I have never seen anything and they would cost me about $500 at work, and I get them for GM dealer cost. Are we talking aftermarket, Bosch? I don't know how I feel about Bosch, at least their plugs and wires. Got a part number???
last i herd they were 170$ AN INJECTOR!
Quote from: 93luminaz34 on April 06, 2006, 08:00:56 PM
You could attach a fuel pressure gauge to the schrader valve on the rail, and then turn the ignition on for a few seconds to pressurize the system. Turn the ignition back off again and just watch the guage to see if it drops. At least then you'll know if you have leaking injectors or not.
This makes total sense to me. OBDII :smile24: :new_all_coholic: :thumbsdown:
Sounds more like the FPR than an injector to me. I would see if you have fuel leaking from where the FPR is attached to the fuel rail. Small leaks like that kill starts and performance and usually go un-noticed because they are so small and under the plenum and the gas burns up before you have a chance to smell it or see it.
Quote from: R Dubya on April 06, 2006, 08:28:10 PM
Where are these mystical $170 injectors? I have never seen anything and they would cost me about $500 at work, and I get them for GM dealer cost.
http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php?topic=2954.0
thanks!!!! :icon_mrgreen:
EDIT:
well I talked with the guys at the shop today and they have the kent moore injector tool, which will tell you pressure and drop when each injector fires, but it doesnt necessarily provide you with the best judgement if one or more is leaking. I am going to pull the turbo here pretty soon to tie up some loose ends in the engine bay, and install my CAI, fix the AC and so on. I will pull the rail and undo the bolt that holds the metal lines to the rail so I can flex them and then pressurize them to see if one or more is dripping. That should give me a good idea of what's going on if there is a problem there. I will post an update in a week or two.
I pulled the rail today and pressurized and I found I have 3 maybe 4 leaking. So it looks like I'm in the market for some injectors. Changed my accumulator today with the 4 Seasons one with the low side port built in, new o-rings and orifice tube. Going to get it charged next week or whenever I get new injectors.
Quick question- on the injector harness connectors there is a small red piece of plastic that I assume insulates the connector to the injector. One fell inside the LIM and is sitting on the intake valve, I'm assuming it won't damage anything and I'll be damned if I'm going to pull the LIM for that. Got the bolts into the bracket on the rear head (no more rattle!!! YEAH!!) also today.
Coming together hopefully next week early, then onto the truck to swap out the engine.
Quote from: 93luminaz34 on April 06, 2006, 08:00:56 PM
You could attach a fuel pressure gauge to the schrader valve on the rail, and then turn the ignition on for a few seconds to pressurize the system. Turn the ignition back off again and just watch the guage to see if it drops. At least then you'll know if you have leaking injectors or not.
Not true unless you can see an injector leaking. You have to take the fuel rail loose so you can see the bottom of the injectors. Good start :icon_cool:( I have done that to see how much an injector flowed in a mason jar with a stop watch.) The FP check ball could be bad which will dictate a drop in pressure back to the tank so without the injectors hanging in the air you won't be able to tell which is bad. I would be ready to put a fire out. :icon_frown:
Jud
Replacing them all??
a costly venture even for those working at a GM dealer....as i recall
here is what myself an Luke have
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy-GM-3-8L-231-K-Bosch-Ford-22lb-Fuel-Injectors-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33554QQitemZ7997396000
Yea, the injectors have breathed new life in to the car.. No more little drivability problems that it was plagued with before.
Ryan, where did you purchase the parts for the AC? I need to do the R-134a conversion on ours, and I at least want to replace the accumulator before I do it.
Yea ebay is the least expensive way. I have bought about 6 sets and never a failure ranging from about 26# to 40#. The 40# were just to big, I had visions of grandeur. :laugh: Was looking for 12's when I hadn't got to 13's. :laugh: :laugh:
Jud
Luke I got the accumulator from Part Plus here in Binghamton. I paid $45 or so for it. I ordered one from CarQuest before and they told me it was backordered, so I told them to cancel it. They didn't so now there is one that is sitting in the parts department waiting to return. I can get that one for you for $45 shipped as CarQuest was cheaper than Part Plus. It has low the low side fitting on it and fit right in place with the TGP one. All you need is a conversion kit and a little ambition to change the orifice tube and the various o-rings on the system. Then take it and have it vacuumed down and new oil and freon put it. It's going to be a couple of weeks before it's working for me, but isn't more than a days job if you do it, I just have the top end apart to fix a few odds and ends. Let me know if you are interested in this one I have sitting otherwise I'll return it to CarQuest.
I could visably see the injectors dripping, 3 of them anyway, the 4th one I could touch the end of it and my hand would be wet, the other two were fine and dry. I will be using the Bosch set that Dave and Luke run, I contacted the guy on Ebay from Luke's injecjector thread that was posted weeks ago. I will let you guys know how it all works out. I have a Jeff M TG160 chip, so I don't know if I will need it leaned out at all, as I am running a Crane 2020 cam and know it is a little longer and larger lift than stock, so I don't know for sure how that will change things.
Jud, unfortunately I'm not looking for 12's in this car, but hopefully this will at least smooth out the idle and stop the surging at stop lights. :laugh: Next is replacing the fuseable link and finding out why the radio broadcasts the turbo through the speakers. Other than that it's going to be sweet at near 100%.
Yea, I may take that off your hands. That's cheaper than I can find it around here, plus I don't have to wait for Advance to order it.
I've got some other questions for you.. but I'll PM you instead of cluttering this thread up.
So I ordered a set of 6 now, they have gone up in price to $189 but thats still $33 a piece, a lot better than GM pricing. Anyway should have them in a few days, time to put the top end back together. Hopefully these things smooth out ok and I can get it running good for the first time since I've had it. Man is it frustrating when it starts hard and then it blows raw fuel out the back when it finally does start. I still got pretty good mileage too with 4 of them leaking and it was also cutting out at full throttle every once in a while as well, so I can't wait to run this beast!!!!
Think I should change the FPR as well or wait to see if this fixes it? I'd like to keep it as new as possible for as long as possible.. :icon_cool:
Got them today!! Wow that guy is fast. Bruce at Five'O motorsports. I ordered them about pm Thursday. my time, so about 4 pm his time in California. I didn't expect them to come this soon. WOW. Good service and nice guy. Well I will be installing them this week sometime, will post an update when its running again. Thanks for your help guys.
:thumb:
well got the injectors on the rail today, just checking one last time to see if there are any differences in how these mount to the LIM before I put it back together tomorrow. They are almost the exact same size but the ends that go into the LIM are a tad different. Any problems mounting these guys??
TIA
use the top most grove on the top of the injectors to attach them with the clip to fuel rails otherside thay will not be long enough.
i used a bit of oil on the O-rings to seal them and prevent any damage when putin them in the lower intake ports.
So far so good on this teardown. Got a new condenser pipe today from work as the old one had the fitting for the ac pressure switch busted off,iinstalled that one, put the switch on, assembled the top end also. All I have to do is reroute the plug wires and coils, install the turbo and the alternator, and a few other misc parts. Should be up and running again tomorrow. I used the top slot on the injectors for the install as they seemed a bit short if I didn't, don't want to cause and problems with that. I will have a fire extinguisher handy tomorrow just to be on the safe side. Also got a high torque started on Thursday for $20, hopefully it works and I won't have any issues with it. Anyway just updating, should be cruising again tomorrow. Thanks for the help guys. :icon_mrgreen:
She RUNS!! and good! idle jumps up a bit sometimes, I think the IAC may need some adjustment, maybe replacement. Have not charged the AC yet but will this week, and took it for a tear. All the plugs were fouled, had a fried coil pack which would explain the skipping and whatnot, but the wire on cylinder one was bad too. Running good and starts like a champ, no more extended cranking and raw fuel smoke when it starts!!! Big bonus!!
Also my $20 high torque starter sounds great, nice and quiet. Also replaced the vacuum harness and boost controller, and the harness for that unit to the turbo. Everything is tight, hopefully the A/C works, thats my only up in the air at this point.
And it is the stereo that's fried, plugged in an aftermarket deck and no hum, no sound pickuip through the speakers but what I want it to play, so in goes my new sony xm ready deck this week.
Toronto here I come!!!
(contingent on customs) ;)
Quote from: R Dubya on April 23, 2006, 06:35:32 PM
Toronto here I come!!!
(contingent on customs) ;)
I think you may want to leave those funny smelling cigarettes at the house! ;) :laugh: :icon_cool:
don't do that so much anymore, there was a time that I did too much, but hey everyone has their own ways of having fun. I actually made it (keep in mind this IS hypothetical :laugh:) across with a couple of those once on my way to a concert in Ottawa. Didn't bring any back though.
:rocking: :rocking:
Sounds Good Ryan
:icon_cool: