well i didnt beat him...... but i only got 1 run in on the new setup...... on my 2nd run i made it 3 feet off the starting line... snaped another axle i believe, hopefully not the Differential.
Please note: For further proof.... and most likely some better times i will make a video tomorrow if it is indeed just the axle thats the problem.
here the results...... 108MPH TRAP............... Like i said here i come 12s....... my 1/8 mile wasnt that good either (shitty launch) also at 12 psi
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/kuntzie13.jpg)
for clairfaction if you cant read the slip
reaction .7858
1/8 ET 8.9468
1/8 MPH 81.98
1/4 ET 13.6879
!/4 MPH 108.71
well some good news and some bad news....
the good new it was just the axle...... ya it blew apart pretty good (pics below)
the bad new.... it was raining so no more times to tell you about, but tomorrow seems alright so ill most likely go out then
Pics..... just a note... the housing has about a 1.5" crack down it aswell
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/IMG_0175.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/IMG_0172.jpg)
Jesus, I haven't seen hardly ANY busted axles on a W-body! Hopefully it's not a common re-occurance!
Heck of a good run kuntzie :icon_biggrin: Keep it up, you don't have far to go to catch me. After you do then I'll go back to the 1/4 mile. You can be the fastest for a while. ;) Been working mostly on the TA to get in the 80's 1/8 mile. I am at 8.22 now. Just added a 3500 stall converter. Well see.
Quit breaking things, I have never broken anything in the drive line other than a few trannys. Didn't really break anything, just wore them out. Keep waiting for this one to go but it won't quit. When it does it gets a 3500 stall also. Almost wish it would go, Getting tired of tripping over the converter, rather have it in the car.
Looks like I run best in the beginning and you run best at the end.
Again, great run. :cheers:
Gotta get to bed. Flight from Chi Town leaves in the am at 8:00. :icon_frown:Can't wait to get home and back to warm weather.
Jud
I think your clutch is turning out to be an axle eater. ;) You're still on plain ol' street tires, right?
thanks guys... i gladly take the fastest tgp for a while, the tires yes.... just plain old street tires.....otherwise i tihnk id be breaking everything
Are you wheel hopping off the line or during your burnout? Are you drawing the clutch or doing a 5000RPM clutch drop on hot slicks/DR's?
That thing shattered! :icon_eek:
wheel hop off the line...... i snapped another one today too, so no new runs to tell about (happened on my first run) .... anywhere to get hardened axles????
3 in under a month..... pics to come + a vido of 80-120 MPH
oh and no cluitch drop, and starting in 1st gear..... i gotta get this thing dynoed....... there gotta be 400+ ft lsb to the wheels
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/IMG_0180.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/IMG_0179.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/IMG_0178.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/IMG_0177.jpg)
and heres a vido from 70-130 MPH for you guys
http://www.vplanet.ca:7080/users/kuntzie@vplanet.ca/Pictures/130MPH.wmv
:twitch: :Yikes_anim: Was this the same axle you just replaced?
yes..... ive broken 2 driver side and the first one i broke was a passenger side
Quote from: kuntzie on July 23, 2006, 05:41:31 PM
wheel hop off the line......
Wheel hop will kill axles, trannies, and if it telegraphs hard enough into the crank from a solid clutch you can dimple main bearings from the shock waves. You need to get that under control.
Now next issue...what axles are you using? Have you measured them to ensure that you are getting the yoke far enough into the output of the tranny for the entire yoke to seat over the output shaft and bottom out? Are you making sure that the ring clip is seating into the grove in the yoke? Once it seats into the yoke where are the CV rollers inside the yoke when the car is sitting full weight on the front end and also when the nose rises to just before the wheels come off the ground? When you do a hard pull...in say 3rd gear from 3000 RPM to 4800RPM (give or take just trying to stay in the torque range) do you get a notchy/knuckling feeling from the car? Kind of a chuncky shutter? Shit I have no idea how to describe what I am trying to get from you...but is it not smooth in the driveline when you are hard pulling through the torque curve?? :laugh:
If you are not seating the yoke all the way onto the output shaft the axle yoke will float out away from the tranny instead of the CV rollers moving inside the yoke. When that happens you will not have full coverage on the output shaft and it will find the weakest point to wedge open...like the yoke sleave! ;)
Damn Jeff, that's fuging ugly, looks like gorilla snot all over the place. :Yikes_anim: :puke: Looks like you took the tranny out on this one. Don't think better axles are going to help you. :icon_sad:
Do you have your rear struts blocked :icon_question:
Get a slipper clutch. Call Hayes Clutches and tell them your problem. They can make you a clutch that you can come out a 6000 rpm and keeps it there until the car catches up. no harsh engagement. Have run a couple of them in alterds and dragsters. They are definitely easy on the driveline and absolutely dynamite out of the gate.
Jud
108 mph traps are very impressive! :icon_eek: With some sticky tires thats almost a 12 second pass assuming the driveline would hold up. Get that 60' down to a 1.85 and theoretically you would be running around a 13.0 instead of 13.6. Very impressive and thats what I was hoping to eventually see out of that beautiful car when I saw it 1.5 years ago, that car is very nice and congrats on everything you've done so far!
If you don't mind me asking, what are you running for boost levels now, and thats with 29lb. fuel injectors and stock fuel pressure? Are you still running the stock intercooler or do you have a front mount? Also, around what RPM are you seeing full boost?
Axles seem to start to be a problem at around this power level. I was having axle issues when I first did my topend swap right before my tranny issues began when I was running a manual boost controller (for the very short time that I did). Since my tranny issues I haven't really had any axle issues yet, but the car isn't making as much power (I'm running less boost and no mbc so I have a boost ramp now) and my tranny is slipping. We need to find a better solution for axles because with the torque some of us are making, and you especially, the stock ones are not a solution.
TGPilot,
ya the axles sit in fine, but as ive said on w-body, the axles were old/ ised, i got a new one in there now and it seems to be fine (yet no track time yet), no more burnouts for me ill see if that helps as well
Jud,
ya i know its ugly lol, green goop, didnt make it to pleasent to work on as it doesnt clean up easily.
i dont understand what you mean y rear struts blocked, i have the birchmount in the rear which keeps the rear of the car really stiff, so no ass sag or whatever through shifts
you got a # for hayes? that will be my last resort calling them, as i also put neww tires on that might help me out too.
dbtk2,
thanks man, i realize the 108 is a good trap, and might even hit 110 on a good run, i think the driveline, minus the axles is fine, i cant wait to hit a 13.3 even , nevermind a 12.
as for boost, 12 psi -15 psi 12 when i hit the 13.6. yes im running the 29# injectors with stock fuel pressure, unless skalor put a walbro 255 in there and did some other stuff im unaware of.
yes i agree torque is on of my big issues, ill get it dynoed soon enough to get the exact #s but its gotta be over 400 at the wheels.
Congrats! Thiese guys are right..with that trap speed..your looking at a mid-high 12 pass to a flat 13 sec pass with your weight.
Cain't wait till one of you goes into the low 12s.
Wow..im surprised...first axles give instead of pistons.
Quote from: TurboGTU on July 28, 2006, 04:00:48 AM
Congrats! Thiese guys are right..with that trap speed..your looking at a mid-high 12 pass to a flat 13 sec pass with your weight.
Cain't wait till one of you goes into the low 12s.
Wow..im surprised...first axles give instead of pistons.
I'm not suprised the axles are going first. The bottom end of these things are pretty strong, and the tranny part of the drivetrain is not, I would expect axles to go first. In 90*+ outside temps, I was running 14psi boost on my STE, with 820 02's (way leaner than I'd like to see it), from a 60ish roll all the way up to 125 repeatedly to try to get some tuning done. The bottom end just screamed give me more. I honestly see no reason why 11's would be an issue with the stock bottom end.
Quote from: dbtk2 on July 28, 2006, 08:11:21 AM
Quote from: TurboGTU on July 28, 2006, 04:00:48 AM
Congrats! Thiese guys are right..with that trap speed..your looking at a mid-high 12 pass to a flat 13 sec pass with your weight.
Cain't wait till one of you goes into the low 12s.
Wow..im surprised...first axles give instead of pistons.
I'm not suprised the axles are going first. The bottom end of these things are pretty strong, and the tranny part of the drivetrain is not, I would expect axles to go first. In 90*+ outside temps, I was running 14psi boost on my STE, with 820 02's (way leaner than I'd like to see it), from a 60ish roll all the way up to 125 repeatedly to try to get some tuning done. The bottom end just screamed give me more. I honestly see no reason why 11's would be an issue with the stock bottom end.
agreed, i think the motor it self can take everything fine, as long as the car is properly tuned and has sufficient gas supply. DARKNES on w-body was proof that a tgp can hit 260k?? miles no problem on original engine and tranny as well as turbo and x-over. matienence is key,
i check my fluids every couple of days, only takes a second, mnd as well.... and do oil changes (oil & filter) about every 1800-2500 miles, mainly becasue i beat on it on the track and such.
i know i am capable of 12s safely on the basicly stock motor. once i get the FMIC in i should be good for it.
also for comaparison... all on street tires
stock turbo - 14.3 @ 101 (best of 30+ passes) - gutted cat, 1.6 rockers 11 psi
gt2871 @ 5 psi - 14.030 @ 93 - bad clutch... maybe 5 passes, exhaust leak, magnaflow cat, stock mufflers
gt-2871 @ 12 psi - 13.6006@108 - stage 3 clutch, magnaflow and cherry bomb, no stock mufflers... only 1 succcessful pass, 1st pas usually the worst run.... hoping to get some in this weekend
Ok Kuntzie,
I had a friend of mine who has been racing for more years than a many on here have been alive take a look at your pictures. He said the same thing I did before I said anything. Your Yokes are slidding off the output shaft and twisting in half! If you look at your pictures of the yoke...you will see a shiney ring in the splines. That is know as a torque witness mark. Your yoke is twisting sideways at the point of fracture on the output shaft and with your wheel hop you are twisting the yoke in half on the output shaft.
Either your ring clip on the output shaft is worn out or missing. Could also be the clip seat in the yoke is worn out also allowing it to yoke to slide off the output shaft.
But when he said the same thing as my initial thought...I knew it... ;)
kenny,
when i replaced the alxe the last time, i put a new clip on the tranny, as well as a new axle seal, along with the BRAND NEW axle.
well snappty snap, it broke today.
the end was still completely in the tranny and had a hard time comming out even though a piece was cracked off like usual.
ill get pics of this one up soon. i took it out pf the car right on the outside of the track so the car maybe was moved 15 feet this time, compared to the usual ~1/2 mile
No burnout- no dumping the clutch- no harsh start off the line....... just snapped..... got 1 run in again, 13.6192 @ 109.66 < higher trap than before with a 2.67 60'<< .52 seconds lnonger then my 13.6006 run, so theroicly with the 2.15 60' on my run today i would have hit a a 13.0 something..... like i said i was babying it
How much play is in the output shaft? I severely doubt the yokes are breaking from torque. The tranny will let go first. I have seen our yokes and shortened axles used on a 600+ HP Kharma Ghia. Something else is wrong there bud. :thinking: I mean it is a great ego booster to think you are putting down that much torque to be breaking things like that...but I doubt it severely. ;)
You running C-16 in that thing? Its getting better.
I just hate it when a guy is doing good then things start breaking. I hope you don't throw the towel in.
Check the trans, I'm not fimiliar with the Getrags, but if there's a axle stablelizer (behind the seal) or bearing where the outside edge of the axle rides on, it might already seen its better days. If it's removable...try pulling it out and take it to a trans parts store..they might be able to find something that fits with a little pursuation. On my SHO 5 spd...the axle support was ON the differential. If yours is like this..check the differential by pulling the adapter piece off(it comes off?) and check for roundout. It would let the axle move pendicular to the pinoin pin. My cure for this, belive it or not is welding and filing the diff. You could also try taking it apart and having the diff holes honed and install jurnal bearings. No replacement parts for this tranny..only one off stuff.
Check A-arm bushings, spindle, strut, rack-n-pinion, ex-girfriend, underware.... :willy_nilly: :smilielol:
will do TurboGTU..... but im gunna try this first...
well i talked to an axle company thats semi close to me, sent them the pictures and told him what was going on, he saw the pics and was like ya those are pretty broken.
I told him that the axles are breaking but still stay in the tranny, and i got to hit them out ect, so i know there not just slipping of the output shaft. (2 of the times it stayed in the tranny)
oddly enough at the track uesterday, he was there and remembered my car. didnt know it was an axle i broke or he would have came and talked to me.
we talked to a bit and he said, if the passenger one is holding up fine, then he will just make me a driver side one, i actually got the # for this guy from a buddy on another car forum, whos got an 12.0 second grand prix, had problems with axles, about one every 4 or 5 passes, got some of these an never had a problem since, (with Slicks too)
one axle, 300 bucks (canadian) so basicly 200 for the upgrade, said It will not be broken , and carries a life time warranty, i have it for next wekend to test it out.
I will keep him in mind for future use if I need it.
On the other hand...I have $20 USD that says with the new axles you will rip out the output shaft of the tranny or a component directly associated with the output shaft within 5 HARD runs! ;)
Quote from: TGPilot on July 31, 2006, 02:19:02 PM
I will keep him in mind for future use if I need it.
On the other hand...I have $20 USD that says with the new axles you will rip out the output shaft of the tranny or a component directly associated with the output shaft within 5 HARD runs! ;)
i wouldnt doubt it
thats ok if you have the money though...your chasing out the week points! if you have the bankroll you'll save some guys who go the 5speed route alot of money! if you choose to share the secrets/week spots this tranny has.....
on a side note: anyone know why we get strories of stock (nearly at least) TGP's ripping up getrag 282's but guys in 400ft/lb tourqe fieros run em and they survive??
Choice of junkyard trannys.....IMO
most people that wanna do it right will ether have the Getrag rebuilt and KEEP fluid levels in it and it will survive fine.
cheap out or take it for granted your screwed.
Kuntzie has a 284 the "more HD" version of the Getrag's so says the "Pro's" here and there
i have no problem with my 282 that was rebuilt and im pretty hard on it at times.
The heaviest stock Fiero weighs 2700 lbs. Our TGP's are upwards to 3600 lbs. You force the tranny to move the weight...it will feel it alot more than if it is in a light car. ;)
A lot of Fieros tend to be street cruisers driven by older guys(at least, every V8 one in my area I've ever seen was driven by someone that was more into car shows instead of running it down a drag strip). I doubt any getrag would last long with a few hard launches on a set of drag radials that hook nicely or a set of stickier slicks. We all know what happened to Jay's 282. :icon_redface: He did have a higher mileage transaxle from what I remember though....a fresher one might have lasted a couple of passes w/ a hard launch.
well, after some debating, ive came to the conclusin im going to not get the race axles right now. first i am going to make a poly tranny mount and lower engine mount and see if tha helps, then i got a few other things in mind i want to do aswell......
OK 1 more thing....... could the car being lowered be causing this??
wait theres one more....
Thursday August 10= Dyno Day for Kuntzie
where are you getting the dyno run done at?
Quote from: 93luminaz34 on August 05, 2006, 12:24:28 PM
where are you getting the dyno run done at?
its a secret, no not really, getting it done at F&F
seriously though could the car being lowered + the pwer be casuing axle breakage??
Depends on the angle of attack on the axle now compared to stock ride height. If you are lowering a car I would think it would push the axle further into the yoke. But I guess the question is how far in is safe? That I couldn't tell you without seeing it for myself. You need to ensure you are not damaging the yoke by having the bearing rollers bottoming out when you hit a dip in the road.
Easiest way to tell. Clean out a yoke and axle bearing end...put some modeling clay inside the yoke. Get you and 10 friends to sit on the front end of the car to force it to bottom out...then take measurements of the clearance you have between the bearing rollers and the yoke base. If you are bottoming out then you are most likely fatiguing the yoke from collisions between the bearings and yoke.
ill take some pictures of it the best i can, and see if you see someting odd about it. also what about a shitty balljoint or something else i might be missing that could be causing this?
Quote from: kuntzie on August 07, 2006, 04:13:03 PM
seriously though could the car being lowered + the pwer be casuing axle breakage??
definately a possibility. i've been looking around at lowering springs for my GS lately and it seems that the general consensus is that any more than 1" lower will cause vibrations during acceleration due to axle geometry being thrown off. i think the fix was raising the engine back up with plates between the motor mounts and subframe or something like that. i haven't actually heard of this being a problem for 1st GEN W-bodies, but i don't know why they would be any different. i haven't had this problem with my lowered Cutlass either; although i've been using the Eibach springs which don't lower the car nearly as much as the Intrax springs.
turbo sedan, i dont even have the intrax springs, i got my springs off a olds 98, lowered the car about 2.5 " in the front,
also the tranny mount on the top of the tranny/ attaching to the x-over, lets say therotically, the tranny mount was not there (mine is but just a question) could that be causing the tranny to move?
Quote from: kuntzie on August 12, 2006, 07:57:26 AM
turbo sedan, i dont even have the intrax springs, i got my springs off a olds 98, lowered the car about 2.5 " in the front,
also the tranny mount on the top of the tranny/ attaching to the x-over, lets say therotically, the tranny mount was not there (mine is but just a question) could that be causing the tranny to move?
holy crap 2.5"!! i've seen pics of your car (looks awesome) but i never even considered that as a being the culprit of your axle problem until you mentioned it...i didn't think it was
that low. with your car being so low in the front, i would say that is very likely your problem. if you can, try replacing the springs and see what happens. it might not look as good but it's better than breaking axles every time you go to the track.
are you talking about the crossover pipe support bracket? it's not really a transmission mount at all, so if it's not there the transmission isn't going to move any more than it does with it in place. it probably wouldn't be very good for the flex bellows though.
on a side note, i think the 282/284 5-speed in a W-body could definately use more and/or better transmission mounts. they don't seem to have much lateral support. i've considered trying to fab up a bracket between the rear side of the transmission and the subframe so i could use a solid bobble strut type mount like a Turbo Dodge has. i think even the 282's in the Beretta have a bobble strut type mount on the front side of the transmission.
the best picture i could get currently... the axle looks like this ___----- lol i could definitly see a problem
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/image7.jpg)
ya josh, the car sits way too low..... i like it that way though, but i have a low profile jack and it wont fit under the car (on the cradle) i have to use a sissor jack then put the other jack under it.... heres a pic if you havent seen it before.... its not even 1 finger clearance in the wheel well
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/kuntzie_86/PICT0044.jpg)
take that pic of the CV while running past it with a camera???
LOL worst pic ever..
So if the picture is level then your geometry is extremely off!
Also your CV boot if it is correctly on the axle is Hyper-extended Pulling the CV bearings to the outside of the yoke.
I think I mentioned this when I was talking about when the car lifts on take-off.
Put the proper springs in and run it...bet it works! ;)
sheesh being that low u must be scared of speed bumps and dips in the road
Quote from: Invasion1 on August 13, 2006, 06:33:19 PM
take that pic of the CV while running past it with a camera???
LOL worst pic ever..
camera phone.... = the crappyness
TGP Pilot..... will do..... anyone got intrax for sale
I definately agree with the others that the lowering might be your issue. I know there are a few 88-96 L67 swap guys around here, and they have to run modified axles in their cars due to the width being different, but I know if they lower their cars with the modified axles they start having problems. The break axles and one guy that I know of actually ruined his differential because the axle was pushing in on it so much.
Raise the front of that car up and I bet the axle issues go away or at least get a LOT better.