The idle seems pretty high on my 90 tgp, its got a reburned chip from Skalor. the car wasnt to just accelerate on its own, i have to press the brakes to go anything under 10-15 mph. it idles at like 1200-1400. warm, and if the a/c comes on, it jumps to nearly 2k! and then slowly goes down to 1200-1400 again. This is kind of annoying, any ideas? Iv leaned the IAC before and no difference.
Try doing an idle relearn- it helped my idle a lot.
Did you do anything other than the chip? Did you hit a vacuum line? Did it do this immediately after you installed the chip or did it take a little time before it did this?
its always done this since i bought it 2 years ago, lol. Iv checked and fixed 2 vacuum leaks. I might try another idle relearn, because i disconnnected the battery a few weeks ago and didnt bother. But i notice when u start it warm the idle spikes up to 2k imeidiatly and then levels off down to 1100-1200. The car runs fantastic otherwise.
Quote from: Prospeeder on March 02, 2007, 11:58:48 PM
its always done this since i bought it 2 years ago, lol. Iv checked and fixed 2 vacuum leaks. I might try another idle relearn, because i disconnnected the battery a few weeks ago and didnt bother. But i notice when u start it warm the idle spikes up to 2k imeidiatly and then levels off down to 1100-1200. The car runs fantastic otherwise.
Mine used to do the exact same thing: I fixed two vacuum leaks, cleaned my TB, all of its passages and the whole idle control assembly, reassembled it all, did an idle relearn, and now it idles perfectly. Try that. ;)
A high idle is one of two things.
The chip is telling it to idle that high.
There is a vacuum leak that the chip can not compensate for and it sits high.
If you have a diag tool to see what the desired idle RPM is or what the IAC steps are sitting at you can easily determine which is the cause.
I think 90% of the high idle complaints I have seen on here have been narrowed down to a vacuum leak. Trust me...it does not need to be big for a high idle to be present. Get out the can of carb cleaner and start tracking it down. ;)
Just a tip- I found a broken vac line by my battery- it is the one that goes to the vac ball, and it broke in that tight area somehow... After I fixed it, it ran much better- I was really surprised at the difference a bad line makes.
TGP Nick. I had the same problem. Exact spot. It's probably common with these cars.
when I idle my TGP with the datalogger running the RPM reading on the laptop is always about 200 lower than what the tach reads, I was advised of this by Jeff M long ago and did verify it for myself. I would not be surprised to find that you have at least one faulty injector, because if it didn't do that right off when you swapped the chip, well it's something else. You did get hit in the front end, I would advise checking the connection at the vacuum canister underneath the drivers side front of the vehicle.
The relearn helped abit. I just had the bumper off and had the vacuum ball off, but it looked ok, ill check that hose. and hopefully hook it up to a scanner
I was told by a cluster reman company that the GM tolerance for RPM scale is + or - 500 RPM. The datalogger can not lie so trust that more than the dash. ;)
ohh well my cross overs leaking pretty good, i seafoamed it, and smoke poured off the cross over. sooo ill be investing in one of those soon....
I read in my TGP factory Service Manual to use a Tech I scan tool to do the idle learn but it also stated how to do it without the tool, but I can't find it again. So how are you doing the idle learn without the scan tool? Thanks...T :dunno:
Well could this really be the cross over? cause i start it, and the idle flies up to almost 2k for like 10-15 seconds and then suddlenly just drops to 1000 ish. Iv done 2 idle relearns, its not helping, and theres no leaks.
I have seen this type of thread over and over on the turbo dodge site and over and over it turns out to be a vacuum leak the guy just couldn't find. I have also seen idle speed motors stick and not respond to cleaning but not near as much as a leak. We just had an older chevy pick up with throttle body injection have a sticking motor. It would start and run high it would come down but not low enough. We found a leaking throttle body gasket and replaced it. It then would start high but not as much but would settle down to normal after a while. Tapping on the speed motor with a small hammer would help bring down the idle. The guy working on it broke it while cleaning but a new one did fix it. So it had both issues.
Tim
Prospeeder- do you still have an oem crossover on your TGP? If it is OEM, then YES it is bad.
yea its bad, if you read where i seafoamed my car and smoke came POURING off the crossover. It will be sent off to Kenny (i think thats his name?) for the 365$ repair in a couple months
Yup its Kenny, and yes the x-over is bad- likely a cause of your problems. ;)
According to the scantool, its Idling at 800 RPMs, but it bounces from 800-850. But the car when you first start it the RPMS Rocket to 2100 or so RPMs and then go down, takes it like 20-30 seconds to go down to 1200 then when you put it in gear it imidiatly goes down to 800. Would leaky injectors do that? They suddenly get a fat dose of gas and the car idles high, it has long warm starts. i dunno, im gonna Find a Chevy Corsica or somthing to drive and repair this thing when warmer weather comes.
my low mileage TGP was doing the exact same things, would start idle real high and took forever to come down to a tolerable level. I checked all the vaccum lines but what I did find as problems did not solve the idle issue. I dropped $275 on a set of injectors and then found that mine were leaking under pressure when the engine was shut down, which caused not only a hard start but I think was making the car run a lot richer than it should have.
All my injectors ohm'd properly too, so I don't know if that always tells of the problem, but you could always pull the rail and see if you can find a leaky one or six. Good bet to replace injectors and x-over, if there are no massive vacuum leaks to speak of.
Was defintly on my list to replace all six injectors with 3800 ones. along with the cross over, and hopefully rebuild the turbo, i hear of alot of peoples just going out of nowhere, so il thought it would be wise.
Im bringin this back, I have replaced my xover, and it runs better, i now replaced the Injectors with some brand new Ford 19lb injectors, and it STILL does the super high idle on start then it levels back down. Im trying an idle relearn, but it isnt fixing it. I no longer have the issues like driving itself, hard starts, or rough idle. But that annoying high idle is still there. i have traced and replaced any bad vacuum lines and cannot find a leak anywhere. Ive tried 3 different IAC motors also.
Have you taken off your throttle body and cleaned it? When you do that, don't forget to replace the TB gasket.
Cleaning out my TB helped my car idle MUCH better. It was very dirty though.
i didnt remove it, but i have seafoamed through the vacuum lines before, and cleaned it all up with TB cleaner before. I tried to freakin idle relear, idle in drive for 5-7 min, then shut off for 10 seconds, restart for 5 min then shut off. and its still doing it....
I had the same problem and I put in a new ECM and then did an idle re-learn and no more idle problems.
I agree with the ECM fixing the idle...had that happen too. If not that, then check out the Throttle Position Sensor.
I swapped ECMs, IACs, injectors, cleaned the TB, checked vacuum lines, all sorts of stuff. After I got the TSTE back together the idle was very high, and if I remember right it had gotten better but still seemed to idle really high occasionally. One more problem I'm looking forward to once the Getrag's taken care of :rolleyes:
is the ECM swappable from any 3.1 Car? Just need my PROM. right?
Any 3.1 W-Body, maybe any 3.1 car. Just make sure you switch out the Memcal/EPROM.
Easy to do, too. Took me all of maybe 10 minutes in the cold to do it.
a 2.8 ECM will work as well.
I was just gonna take the ECM out of my 3.1 6000. Thatll work right? I didnt think it HAD to be from a Wbody.
If you look at it there is a fairly long number on the side of it, I bought mine from GM and definitely overpaid, I checked on e-bay and there are quite a few for sale, I emailed a bunch of them with the part number and 1 guy got back to me, 35-40 bucks I think. I'll check to see if I saved him in my favorites, but I don't think I did, unfortunately he got back to me after I broke down and got one from GM.
*I checked I didn't save the ECM guy from e-bay, I really think the numbers have to match whats in it now if you try to use another one.
I have a TGP ECM if you want? $20 and shipping sound good? I bought it for the chip and got the ECM with it.
maybe, give me a week or so, i need paid.
So the ECM out of my 6000 Wont work to see if thats the problem? no one really said
Oook So I got a new ECM, no fix, went and cleaned the hell out of the IAC motor and the inside of the TB, kinda dirty, but no change, Car still does it, idle shoots up when started and takes forever to come down. I sprayed carb cleaner everywhere in hopes to find some vacuum leak, none. Im out of ideas. Heres a few vids, Tell me if im just crazy or is this not normal. Cause my 3.1 6000 does nothing of the such. Im about to start trading things untill i figure this out damnit. I took the vids upside down, oops, but you get the idea
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Prospeeder/?action=view¤t=08-03-08_1222.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Prospeeder/?action=view¤t=08-03-08_1219.flv
Dude that's normal! Your tach's just off. The RPM's don't "Shoot up", they just return to their normal idle spot when not in gear.
Seems normal. Try swapping EGR?
hmmm ok well then i guess i wont worry about it. I thought it seemed odd
Do the 3.1 throttle bodys have a screw to adjust base idle? If so could someone have changed it from factory setting and the computer needs to think for a minute because say the throttle blade is open too much? I haven't worked on many GM's but on my mopars I can with a scanner close the idle speed motor to check base idle or without a scanner force the idle up by creating a vacuum leak making the computer close the idle speed motor. When closed I can unplug the idle speed motor and stop the vacuum leak to check base idle. I don't know if this would work on a GM but be careful, on a dodge if you unplug the idle speed motor while it is working it can fry the driver in the computer for it. This is also part of our relearn process. If our base idle is incorrect the computer sets the idle speed motor to what it thinks it should be then after it finds the idle speed is not correct it will adjust it but it takes time to think about it. The dodge also will not learn the set value is wrong and will always use that number as a starting point. The opposite happens if the throttle blades gunk up with junk. The base idle is low and idle speed starts low and eventually will go up after it sees it wrong. Unfortunatly it stalls first many times. Just a thought hope it helps. The video did show a flair but not much. Ford programs what yours is doing into all its computers and call it extended idle. Takes a ford about a minute to drop and it does it everytime you start it. PTO equipted fords that use the factory computer to run the engine speed of the PTO will not let the PTO turn on until after the extended idle is timed out. Whats worse is if you try to turn on the PTO before it cycles it will never turn on during that ignition cycle and you have to restart the engine and try again.
Tim
maybe, i dont think this is normal, when i come to stops the RPMs are up, it makes the car hard to stop especialy with the a/c on and the cars hot with the cooling fans. Why cant the stupid idle stay where it suppose to, always shooting up or hanging and then dropping not just imiedatly going, shouldnt it have it set where that perfect low idle is and go straight there, my 6000 does, why doesnt this?
When I gave my 6000 STE to a friend, 2.8 liter V6, he replaced the MAF or MAP and the TPS and the idle went back to normal immediately. When I had it, it would go from like 500 RPM's to 2400 RPM's, back down, then back up, and after a few minutes it would steady itself out.
Before I fixed my idle problem, I changed the EGR valve, idle control, MAP, CO2, changed a lot of vacuum lines, I bought 6 feet of vacuum hose and some brake lines and found some cracked plastic vacuum lines and replaced them, all helped a bit but the idle was still screwed up so I brought it into a GM dealer and they replaced the ECM and did an idle relearn with a scan tool and that did the trick, it runs perfect now and has more power.