finally switched today. I'm not paying $3.60/gallon for regular gas
I spent most of the week getting my regular gas tune dead on for up to 11psi.
then I made another chip guessing the fuel requirements for E85, and it was almost dead on lol.
my tank was empty today so I filled it all the way up with E85. brought my laptop & chip burner along just incase. got a datalog too.
http://www.unbase.com/n/2399749334
Make sure you replace all the rubber seals, the Ethonal Attacks the rubber and some plastic parts of the fuel system causing leaks
Ethanol likes to destroy fuel injectors.... you should replace them if you haven't already
Quote from: scott0999 on May 19, 2007, 02:41:26 PM
finally switched today. I'm not paying $3.60/gallon for regular gas
you'll have to buy more though because you dont get as good fuel mileage! right??!!
so they offset pretty much i thought.....but......awsome for turbo cars.....push the boost and see what she makes!!
Sir. My hats off to you.
Don't you just love the smell of it. :icon_biggrin:
You should be fine. It's not like Methnal that is verry corrosive. This stuff is safe. GM had to consider that ethanol was going to be in gas so they had to change their fuel system. But I don't think it'll be safe for stock TGP injectors. The TGP injectors went out even with regular injector cleaners.
Guys you'll need to multiply about 1.5 of what you regularly use in the fuel tables to make it work. Some of the guys on the Ford 2.3l board switched buy changing injectors to lager ones and fuel pressure only.
Only problem is that you'll run out of HP sooner since the fuel pump will look like a winie. You'll need something bigger like a walbro 255 or two walbros in series.
ya, it smells alot different lol
much easier to tolerate when working on fuel related stuff too :laugh:
fuel requirements are approx 30% more, tuning for it was a breeze!
If you want to get nearly twice the power you need to take one more step. ;) Up the compression to about 12:1 and leave your boost and timing tables where they are. Then you can properly burn the E85 and use it to it's maximum ability. SAAB did this on a 9-5. They went from 150HP to 300Hp with minimal loss to fuel economy. You need to have a switch program or two chips in the car though. One for low boost gasoline when you can not fill with gas on the higher compression, and the other to run the High boost E85.
I always love when I hear someone say it will hurt your car and it is the devils liquid! E85 does have it's hungers for some types of rubber and plastic...but for a few hundred dollars you can convert your car to run something that in the end will save you thousands and my friends can come home from shitholes like Iraq because we no longer need their oil!! ;)
*edited for HP numbers incorrect*
Kenny, can you supply any information on converting the TGP to E85? Scott, too...pics also if you have any.
Quote from: TGPilot on May 22, 2007, 08:46:30 AM
If you want to get nearly twice the power you need to take one more step. ;) Up the compression to about 12:1 and leave your boost and timing tables where they are. Then you can properly burn the E85 and use it to it's maximum ability. SAAB did this on a 9-3. They went from 128HP to 260Hp without any loss to fuel economy. You need to have a switch program or two chips in the car though. One for low boost gasoline when you can not fill with gas on the higher compression, and the other to run the High boost E85.
I always love when I hear someone say it will hurt your car and it is the devils liquid! E85 does have it's hungers for some types of rubber and plastic...but for a few hundred dollars you can convert your car to run something that in the end will save you thousands and my friends can come home from shitholes like Iraq because we no longer need their oil!! ;)
check this out :)
http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=25_41&products_id=80
Quote from: grinders_18 on May 22, 2007, 01:09:31 PM
Kenny, can you supply any information on converting the TGP to E85? Scott, too...pics also if you have any.
the only real conversion you need to do is to add approx 30% more fuel accross the board when using E85
theres a couple different ways you could go about doing this:
1) get an adjustable FPR and find what fuel pressure you need to run E85. this way you could use gas still by putting the fuel pressure back to stock levels if E85 is not available. as long as the fuel pump is up to the task all you need is the AFPR and a fuel pressure gauge.
2) get injectors that are 30% larger. tune 2 bins. one for regular gas and one for E85. get this switcher device and you can switch between gas/E85 tunes with the flip of a switch
http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=25_41&products_id=80
3) get a flextek piggyback device http://www.flextek.com
if your car can run E10, you can run E85. its really only pre-88 cars that werent designed to even run E10 that cant handle E85.
You are not seeing what I am saying about the E85.
Just adding fuel is not the answer. The more fuel you add without upping the compression the worse your fuel mileage will be. You can just get away with upping the boost for max HP/Tq numbers, but a 3 bar MAP will be required and a better turbo than the T25.
This is the ENTIRE problem with the flex-fuel cars right now that are naturally aspirated. There is NO possible way to burn E85 efficiently at stock (lower) compression that will also allow for gasoline to be used. So with gas more dominant than E85 (hopefully E100 will become more available too) they design the motor to run efficiently around gasoline and then tell the PCM that the lower readings the 02 sensors are seeing when burning E85 is "normal" and do not kick an SES light. At the same time a considerable amount of fuel must be added to get a proper Lambda burn on E85 compared to gasoline. Have you ever driven a flex-fuel car or rental? Run it on gas it gets the claimed MPG they post from the factory...put in E85 and the mileage drops like a stone.
Now on a turbo charged E85 or E100 motor it is real simple as SAAB proved without any chance of argument. They upped the base compression from 8.8:1 to 11:1 (sound familiar?) and used a VHT style turbo charger. When the car runs on gasoline the computer takes over. It reduces peak boost as well as spark timing. The power drops off significantly, but the mileage stays in very good shape. Now when the car is running E85 or E100 (most of their testing was done on E100 to prove a point) the computer takes over and UPs the boost levels from bottom to top, increases the timing by better than 35% from stock parameters, and guess what...the car now produces 300HP! ;) The power nearly doubles and the fuel economy was only lower by 4 MPG over the stock 150HP motor!
So like I said...if you want to get the full potential of burning E85 or E100 you need to UP your base compression, get a better turbo, and tune the timing for E85. Otherwise you are throwing 30% more fuel at the same fire without any gains. :icon_cool:
Just for peoples information. E85 is the dominant Ethanol fuel right now because E100 requires a fuel pre-heater for cold start at temperatures below 60*F ambient. No biggy really...as soon as the motor fires the fuel heater turns off and you never know the difference.
oh no I do know all that....
the "problem" is I cant afford compression changes...
Im not too woried about price though anyway. How much do you think Race gas now cost? That also something to consider.
The cheap, poormans way of having higher compression is using the Iron head 3.1l pistons/rods in our engines.
how much does that change the compression?
I have a 3400, so im at 9.5:1 stock