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Took the TGP to get emissions tested today, seeing as my birthday is on Thursday and I need to renew my plates.

Here are the results:

ASM2525 Test

     Limit        Reading

HC    58             6
CO    0.32         0.20
NO    652          710


What am I looking at to get this thing to pass the NOx test?

Could this be related to my fuel cutting/stuttering under 7+ psi of boost?

Any help is appreciated.

Quote from: 93luminaz34 on October 15, 2007, 03:30:51 PM
Could this be related to my fuel cutting/stuttering under 7+ psi of boost?

absolutely could be.

I searched quick and found this. it's for an accord, but it explains reasons for high NOx readings. I dunno what your EGR situation is but from what I've seen, it's not usually a problem on W's (it is on '90s Hondas though..) if you have your EGR off, it certainly is contributing to it though.
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/oct2004/techtips.htm

I wonder if your EGR pipe is cracked? if the engine's expecting the EGR to be open, obviously it's running off a different tune.. could potentially be causing timing/burn problems?

anyone else's thoughts on this?

as far as I know, the EGR valve was not disabled in the chip,  but I'd have to confirm with Kenny to be sure.

I do have the stock plugs gapped tighter than stock (.028" vs. .045") Would that cause excessive heat in the combustion chamber?

Thanks for the replies.

Quote from: 93luminaz34 on October 15, 2007, 04:13:22 PM
as far as I know, the EGR valve was not disabled in the chip,  but I'd have to confirm with Kenny to be sure.

I do have the stock plugs gapped tighter than stock (.028" vs. .045") Would that cause excessive heat in the combustion chamber?

Thanks for the replies.

I'm not going to claim I know a lot about this, but I believe a larger gap would cause it to run hotter, as it wouldn't be burning as efficiently. The gap is right for the tune, but I can't pretend to speak for kenny on whether or not his tune would pass emissions. I guess it has to, if it's supposed to be any better than the stock tune lol. But with that in mind, if you can't figure anything else out, I might swap in the stock chip for the inspection.

I don't have a stock chip, but I do have a Jeff M TG160.......

Does anyone have a stock chip lying around they'd be willing to sell me for cheap?

Kenny........your thoughts?

And to reply to your comment above Tony, if the EGR pipe was cracked, wouldn't there be an audible exhaust leak?

I'm thinking of at least taking the EGR valve off and cleaning it and the related ports in the plenum.

I'm pretty sure I can round up a stock chip. 


edit: yeah I have one.  I can probably get to it tomorrow but I won't be able to ship it until Wed.  Let me know if you want to borrow it. 

ryan.e.warren(at)gmail.com

PM sent

Your studdering under 7psi boost and those high NOx could potentially be related. Running lean can cause high NOx emissions. I would consider doing some more fuel related tests to see if your pump is supplying an adequate amount of fuel. Here's a link regarding fuel pump diagnosis.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/fuel_pump_diagnose.htm

Just for what it's worth, my TGP only had 10ppm NOx emissions back in 2002 when it was tested. It was still on the stock chip then. The car was ran @ 1200rpms and the allowable level was something like 1190ppm on that test.

Quote from: mfewtrail on October 15, 2007, 09:17:28 PM
Your studdering under 7psi boost and those high NOx could potentially be related. Running lean can cause high NOx emissions. I would consider doing some more fuel related tests to see if your pump is supplying an adequate amount of fuel.

I'll agree with Matt, I might have been quick to mention the chip. Kenny tuned the chip and it ran fine, obviously there's still another issue at hand that's a more likely culprit.

It does seem like the two issues are related.

Is the Walbro pump the recommended replacement pump?

What is the Walbro part number?

how much is does it cost you to have it checked? 


I can ship that to you on Wednesday if you like.  Let me know if you definitely want to go that route tonite.  I'll check back after school and see if I can get it out tomorrow.

When I had issues here in Colorado with my red TGP passing emmissions I tried many things to get her to pass. What finally got her to pass properly was a new set of injectors. I had done the fuel pump (Walbro), FPR, filter, and I even ran some dry gas (methanol additive) to try to clear her up to just make emissions. Hell she even had a cat on her with all the emissions turned on.

I replaced the fuel injectors with the yellow top fords from fiveOmotorsports and it was so clean they thought the probe was not positioned properly. They put her in the right side pipe and it was two points cleaner there. I am literally talking a SINGLE digit HC and NO reading.

Do they do a loaded test or is it one of those "in neutral idle for 1 minute, rev to 2500 for 1 minute, then return to idle tests?" Can they give you a break down of the readings to see where it is doing what it is doing?

I do not know what the hell I did...but somehow I deleted your last post Matt. Please re-write it.

QuoteI think I'm going to try it tonight with the TG160 and my new wires if I get it all together before they close tonight.

If you don't mind I'd still like to try it with the OEM chip to see what difference it makes.

Dude I would try every chip I had on hand. You are not going to hurt my feelings.  ;)

I have sold more than 50 of these chips across the US and have not had one complaint about failing emissions. You will be the first, but it does not mean you will be the only one. This is just the first one i have heard of.  ;)

Let me know how things work out.

I'll trade you my stock chip for your HotTune :laugh:

Quote from: TGP Nick on October 17, 2007, 11:28:06 AM
I'll trade you my stock chip for your HotTune :laugh:

Yay! Nick wanna his tranny to go KaBOOM! lol

Ontario's emissions testing are notoriously tight. Going right now with the new Magnecors and the TG160. Wish me luck!!!!!

Sorry Nick, no deal on the trade LOL

Ok....got it retested with the TG160 and new Magnecor wires and came out with TOTALLY different results. LOL

Here we go:

ASM 2525 (25mph driving test)

             Limit      Reading

HC ppm    58          106         Failed the HC instead of the NOx this time
CO %     0.32         0.30
NO ppm  652          118
RPM             1597
Dilution         14.7




Curb Idle Test

             Limit               Reading

HC ppm   200                  89
CO%       1.00                0.63
NO ppm   N/A                 N/A
RPM                926
Dilution            14.5


wOOOOO fun

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/DSC00237.jpg)

any thoughts???

I'm thinking of slapping a new cat on it or trying an OEM chip.

BTW I'm getting a consistant 11 psi out of the car today, its as fast as its been for a few months.....no stuttering or anything  :icon_confused:

I'd try a 12oz bottle of denatured alky to a 1/3 tank of fuel.  It MIGHT pass you.  I know it helped me out when we use to have emissions, but I wasn't failing hardcore, just enough to tick me off and spend more $.

I'll keep that in mind. Bought a new cat, gonna install it Thursday or Friday

I'll get the stocker out today and hopefully you report back with good news afterwards.

Thanks Ryan

Quote from: 93luminaz34 on October 17, 2007, 04:18:08 PM
BTW I'm getting a consistant 11 psi out of the car today, its as fast as its been for a few months.....no stuttering or anything  :icon_confused:

Did you drive it with the new plug wires and the HOT tune chip?

have yet to do that.......it was raining today....the TGP doesn't see rain.

stocker is in the mail.  It's coming from NY but they said it would be about 5-7 days.  3-5 Days was $22 from the USPS and I didn't have time to get to UPS or FedEx.  Sorry but its definitely on the way. 

Don't worry about the shipping it was $2.xx or something.. just get it back to me when you are done with it is all I ask.

Thanks man, much appreciated. It will be headed right back to you when I'm done.

I got the new cat clamped into place today after work.......but I left the dome light on in the car yesterday, so needless to say, the car is on the charger now.

It PASSED!!!!!!!!!

Put a new cat on it and it did the trick, barely, but whatever. LOL

Here's the results.

ASM2525

              Limit           Reading
HC ppm      58                 54
CO%        0.32              0.12
NO ppm    652                24
RPM                 1569
Dilution             14.2

Curb Idle Test

                 Limit             Reading
HC ppm      200               23
CO%          1.00              0.11
NO ppm      N/A               N/A
RPM                   896
Dilution               13.6

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After the test, I took it to an exhaust shop and got the cat welded and removed the clamps.

Ryan, I'll ship that chip back ASAP, thanks for your troubles.

And thank you EVERYBODY for your suggestions.

congrats!

thanks!

Emissions......

what a joke

still none up here in NORTHERN Ontario  :icon_razz:

lucky........its a real good money grab for our government..........

Quote from: 93luminaz34 on October 23, 2007, 09:03:29 PM
lucky........its a real good money grab for our government..........

I bet! Those are some pretty strict standards for old cars. I should check and see what the current testing standards are here(in the parts of the state that actually do emissions testing). If emissions testing/inspections were approved here statewide, the aftermarket catalytic converter companies would make millions. :laugh: