A pic of my best slip:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0931.jpg)
The 3rd of 6 runs was the best.
Yes my reaction time sucks.
RT: .6347
60ft: 2.2082
330 ft: 6.1772
ET@594ft: 8.9055
1/8 ET: 9.5141
1/8 MPH: 73.93
1/4 ET: 14.8083
1/4 MPH: 91.45
I had traction issues off the line all afternoon. My worst run was a 15.1773 @ 90.70 MPH so they were all pretty consistant.
What do ya think?
actually I like that reaction time but you must be a constant racer and your ET time also looks good to me
Thanks, It was my first time ever to the track I LOVE IT!
I just wish I could get it to hook up off of the line.
that's pretty good Matt, not bad. what other mods do you have besides the hot tune? and what elevation are you at? back when Greg had the TSTE it pulled a 14.86 with a UDP and some kind of chip that I'm not even sure on the origins of, lol, so hopefully with current mods I can sneak by by your extra .06 :laugh:
Thanks Tony,
The car has 1.6/1 rockers, FFP UDP, FFP mounts, Magnecor wires, Jeff M X-over, Turbo XS BOV, boostvalve.com 2 stage MBC, K&N cone, and the Hot tune.
Thats pretty much all the mods motor wise.
I'll have to look up what the elevation is.
sweet, how many lbs are you running with the MBC?
You sure you had the Hot Tune chip in there and not something else? Your times seem slow for what is done to the car. How much boost were you seeing during that run? Going by the times that Jamie posted for his GTP on the other forum, the weather was decent enough to run some really good times...
A bit off what I figured considering my wife's TSTE ran a 14.202 at 96MPH at 5800' on the same tune.
One trick you will want to try which got my wife's car to that time...do not run WOT to allow the tranny to shift at lower RPMs. If you can get the TC to lock/unlock and give you a constant 4200 - 4400RPM down the quarter you will run considereably faster. If you are shifting at WOT and the RPMs are holding at 5000+ you will be slow because with the T25 backpressure issues you will be out of the torque and HP beyond 4650-ishRPM. Worse off with a TopGun or Stock tune.
Honestly considering it was your first time to the track with the car (or ever?) you were in the 14's! Guys spend thousands of dollars on some production cars to get them to finally break into the 14's and with some minor practice you were there already there with a car that in stock form was barely called a 15 second car. Yes I know the magazine article showed a 15.3 in the quarter...but how many factory off the show room floor cars actually put that time down in true factory trim?? ;)
Fill me in on how you launch, where is the tranny shifting, are you matting your foot to the floor, etc. With a little advice over the wires we can probably get you into the 13's. At least a flat 14. :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: TGPilot on October 29, 2007, 06:40:42 AM
One trick you will want to try which got my wife's car to that time...do not run WOT to allow the tranny to shift at lower RPMs. If you can get the TC to lock/unlock and give you a constant 4200 - 4400RPM down the quarter you will run considereably faster. If you are shifting at WOT and the RPMs are holding at 5000+ you will be slow because with the T25 backpressure issues you will be out of the torque and HP beyond 4650-ishRPM. Worse off with a TopGun or Stock tune.
How much quicker did you run getting the transaxle to shift lower vs. shifting where it does @ WOT Kenny? Was the "Hot Tune" listed on the dyno chart where you compared to Jeff's chip and stock or was that your Hot/performance chip? I'm curious because on that dyno chart peak power for your chip looked to be around 4900rpms. If that was the case, it seems like shifting just a bit past 5K would be the best point to shift.
Sucks to have an auto :laugh:
Kenny, can't the torque converter lock/unlock settings be changed on the chip? Perhaps what we're talking about wouldn't be the best for everyday driving, I have no idea. But it that were the case, maybe a WOT/RPM activated switch could be used (in addition to the ECM) to lock the torque converter, so that letting off the throttle wouldn't be necessary.
I don't really fully understand how torque converters work, so if I'm talking out of my ass just ignore me :icon_wink:
Quote from: GutlessSupreme on October 28, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
sweet, how many lbs are you running with the MBC?
I wasn't running the MBC when I was racing, I was using ECM controlled boost.
Quote from: mfewtrail on October 29, 2007, 12:43:30 AM
You sure you had the Hot Tune chip in there and not something else? Your times seem slow for what is done to the car. How much boost were you seeing during that run? Going by the times that Jamie posted for his GTP on the other forum, the weather was decent enough to run some really good times...
Yes the hot tune was in it. 10-11 psi of boost on my autometer mechanical gauge. To me the car seemed real good in the 1st 1/8th but ran out of breath in the 2nd 1/8th. I also had a hard time getting off the line without a lot of tire spin.
Quote from: TGPilot on October 29, 2007, 06:40:42 AM
A bit off what I figured considering my wife's TSTE ran a 14.202 at 96MPH at 5800' on the same tune.
One trick you will want to try which got my wife's car to that time...do not run WOT to allow the tranny to shift at lower RPMs. If you can get the TC to lock/unlock and give you a constant 4200 - 4400RPM down the quarter you will run considereably faster. If you are shifting at WOT and the RPMs are holding at 5000+ you will be slow because with the T25 backpressure issues you will be out of the torque and HP beyond 4650-ishRPM. Worse off with a TopGun or Stock tune.
Honestly considering it was your first time to the track with the car (or ever?) you were in the 14's! Guys spend thousands of dollars on some production cars to get them to finally break into the 14's and with some minor practice you were there already there with a car that in stock form was barely called a 15 second car. Yes I know the magazine article showed a 15.3 in the quarter...but how many factory off the show room floor cars actually put that time down in true factory trim?? ;)
Fill me in on how you launch, where is the tranny shifting, are you matting your foot to the floor, etc. With a little advice over the wires we can probably get you into the 13's. At least a flat 14. :icon_mrgreen:
It was my first time to the track ever. Quite honestly, the light turned green and I nailed it and held her down till the finish line. That was my "technique". So the trans was shifting at WOT around red line. Seemed to run out of breath up that high.
When you think about it, the car is pretty much stock, just tuned up, with a performance chip and a couple MINOR bolt ons.
I have to say this again and again but adding more power is great but if you cannot hook up NOW you certainly will not with more power. Sure more power might get you a lower time but so will a set of DR's or ET streets!. A 2.2 sixty foot leaves much room for improvement. If you could cut a 2.0 with some sticky tires you could definitely get a 14.5 out of that car! Invest in some tires and learn to use them before upgrading anymore, you will be glad you did.
Ken
Right now im running Goodyear Eagle F1 DS3's on the front that are on the wear bars so new sticky tires would definately help. I just dont wanna take out the trans either.
Yes the TC can be told where to lock unlock...but the actual shift point under WOT is determined with the trans RPM and the kick down cable. The nice part of my job with the new Electronic controlled trannys is I can dictate exactly what RPM, throttle position, and load point to make the car shift 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 and all of the TC lock and unlock points. I have one LS1 A4 car that sounds like an Allison 6 speed shifting down the track. Talk about holding in the power curve! :icon_eek:
The problem with our cars is they are torque motors...not HP motors. If you are shifting all the way up past where the HP lays down then you never get back into the torque curve. Torque turns the wheels and HP will carry. If we can stay right at the torque curve peak rather than the HP peak you will run MUCH faster in the quarter. Example...7200lbs Cummins pick-up truck with a few bolt on power adders. The truck is only laying down 450HP, but it still makes a 12 second run....WHY? Answer...It has nearly 1000 ft/lbs of torque turning the wheels. Now put that same motor in a vehicle that is 1/2 as heavy...you have an 8 second car. Not possible with just a 450HP motor...again the 1000 ft/lbs of torque turns the wheels. Make sense?
What I did with my wife's car to make a 14.6 run. Iced down the engine/intake before the run with minimal running to get to the line. Slight power brake just to get the turbo to be "spooled" and ready to go showing maybe 2psi_g of boost. Rolled into the throttle to get off the line without spinning the fronts like they were on ice. Matted the throttle full at about the 60' mark or slightly passed and held it to the finish line.
What I did for the 14.2 run...Iced intake. NO POWER BRAKING other than to put a slight load on the tranny, motor mounts, etc to avoid that violent motor twist when the car took off on the VHT prepared track. ROLLED (quick and smooth) into the throttle when I left the line until I could feel the tension in the tranny kick-down cable (about 3/4 throttle...maybe slightly more) and floated it there all the way down the track. My tranny is very clean and you can feel all of the locks and unlocks as it moves up through the gears. My tach never went above 4400 - 4500 RPM all the way down the track. When it shifted it would drop to about 3800-ishRPM and pull like no tomorrow.
Remember that even with the throttle at 3/4 you will flow the same amount of air into the cylinders as when you are 100% throttle as long as you are producing boost. You will have the same amount of fuel, spark timing, etc. The PCM is looking at RPM and the MAP sensor...not TPS for the absolute load point.
Try that next time using the torque to pull the car rather than thinking redline is where the speed is! ;)
Quote from: 93luminaz34 on October 29, 2007, 12:44:55 PM
Right now im running Goodyear Eagle F1 DS3's on the front that are on the wear bars so new sticky tires would definately help. I just dont wanna take out the trans either.
Those a pretty good tires for the track, my friend had them on his 92 gpse with hopped up 3400 and I ran a 14.9 n/a with a 2.0 sixty. What will take out the trans is pegleg burnouts. The diff spider gears will explode because they have no bearings in them, it is just a polished pin on the bore of the spider. When you pegleg the spiders rotate, get hot and start to smear material on the pin. After a while they will sieze and diff. explodes.
If you use some sticky tires do a burnout starting IN the water box, then slowly roll out of the box until they catch. Don't do another burnout or it will pegleg with the auto. The go up to the line and powerbrake it....or nail it whatever you want. With et streets it will hook. With that method I tree'd a ls1 camaro on thos ds3's even though I feathered the throttle. Good luck and have fun!
What the heck is a "pegleg burnout"?
pegleg burnout is when one wheel spins alone or faster than the other wheel. This is due to the different lengths of the cv joints on the auto 4t60. The 282 and 284 have a midshaft so the cv's are equal lengths, this does not eliminate pegleg burnouts but it does minimize them as long as you take off with both wheels straight. The unequal length cv's also cause torque steer. Hope that helps.
My buddy bought something for his 4t60-E which helped with the peglegs. I cannot remember where he got it, but it was called phamton grip. It works like an lsd diff but without the clutches.
Ken
Thanks for the great advice guys. Too bad I'll have to wait till next spring to try out your tips and tricks.
Pics:
On the way there:
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0907.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0908.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0909.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0910.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0911.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0912.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0913.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0914.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0915.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0916.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0917.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0918.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0919.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0920.jpg)
VIDEOS!!!!
My best run: 14.8 @ 91
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/th_CIMG2741.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/?action=view¤t=CIMG2741.flv)
One of Jamies (GTPmunky from w-body) runs
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/th_MVI_0921.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/?action=view¤t=MVI_0921.flv)
A turbo L67 GTP that was there running 11.8xxx
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0922.jpg)
running slicks on xlaces
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0923.jpg)
Jamie putting his subs back in after racing
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0924.jpg)
Fellow GM nuts that were there with an S10 and an L36 Regal
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0925.jpg)
the gp's under a tree
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0926.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0927.jpg)
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c264/mshantz83/IMG_0928.jpg)
10-11psi, I thought Kenny's chip would have you pushing slightly more than that?. Your times seem VERY much like a topgun chipped car to me. Don't get me wrong, your times are good, but I think your car should run a LOT faster and be trapping a great deal higher than it did.
My car ran 14.705@91.94mph w/ a 2.148 60ft time the first time I ever ran it(topgun 160 chip, slightly modded exhaust, and the intake pictured in the link below that had the filter placed over the exhaust manifold area). My transaxle was shifting at an indicated 5500rpms at the time of those runs, I know because I recorded a speedometer video around that same time. The tach in my car is high by about 250rpms last time I checked.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/mfewtrail/1990%20TGP/TGPenginebay.jpg
Also, here's my timeslip for comparisons sake. My car also felt great the first 1/8th and then felt slow past that. http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/tgpslips/mfewtrail.jpg
EDIT: 1/4 mile page has been updated with your time Matt. I borrowed one of those nice pictures of your car to use on the page, hope ya' don't mind. ;) I put a tag on it with your screenname so everyone will know who's car it is . If you want me to take it down, let me know and I'll remove it ASAP. http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/
what are 5 speed guys running with kenny's chip? How much power are they typically making?
Ken
Quote from: mfewtrail on October 29, 2007, 10:05:56 PM
10-11psi, I thought Kenny's chip would have you pushing slightly more than that?. Your times seem VERY much like a topgun chipped car to me. Don't get me wrong, your times are good, but I think your car should run a LOT faster and be trapping a great deal higher than it did.
My car ran 14.705@91.94mph w/ a 2.148 60ft time the first time I ever ran it(topgun 160 chip, slightly modded exhaust, and the intake pictured in the link below that had the filter placed over the exhaust manifold area). My transaxle was shifting at an indicated 5500rpms at the time of those runs, I know because I recorded a speedometer video around that same time. The tach in my car is high by about 250rpms last time I checked.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/mfewtrail/1990%20TGP/TGPenginebay.jpg
Also, here's my timeslip for comparisons sake. My car also felt great the first 1/8th and then felt slow past that. http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/tgpslips/mfewtrail.jpg
EDIT: 1/4 mile page has been updated with your time Matt. I borrowed one of those nice pictures of your car to use on the page, hope ya' don't mind. ;) I put a tag on it with your screenname so everyone will know who's car it is . If you want me to take it down, let me know and I'll remove it ASAP. http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/
Website looks great Matt.
No worries about the picture.
Yeah, I was hoping to run closer to 14.5 @ 95 but I guess I'll have to try a couple different approaches on launching, and/or mod her a little more to get the times down to where I want them.
I too, thought that it should have ran quicker but it is what it is.
From what Kenny told me, my understanding is that the Hot tune doesnt push more boost than the top gun. But what it does do, is use more aggressive ignition timing, leans out the fuel mixture a bit to make more power, while still providing enough fuel for combustion chamber cooling, and provides faster boost ramping.
Kenny, please correct me if I'm wrong in that statement.
I was wondering,
Did you notice any gains from going mufflerless?
cobracmdr - the 282 does not have equal length halfshafts. Compared to the 4T60, the driver's side is the same and the passenger side is only ~1" shorter.
those are also called one-wheel-wonders :icon_cool:
Matt - what the hell is that carpet thing on your dashboard? :Yikes_anim: the side profile highway pics look sweet btw
It's a used dashmat that I bought off of ebay last year for $4.
It keeps the dash from getting sunbaked when it sits outside.
Quote from: 93luminaz34 on October 30, 2007, 02:40:20 PM
I was wondering,
Did you notice any gains from going mufflerless?
I don't really know to be honest. The car had a high flow cat and a resonator on it when I bought it, so I never got to drive it with mufflers. I doubt removing the mufflers really makes any difference as several people have put down plenty of power through the stock exhaust system w/ the cat removed.
Yes Matt you are right.
These T25s are not efficient above 11 or 12 psi_g and in effect over-run the intercooler and you become a firebreathing turbo. Hot air in means piss poor performance.
My question to you Matt...do you feel a difference in the HOT tune chip compared to the TG chip?
As we discussed in previous posts you need to get your driving technique down and you will be in the 13's pretty easily. Hell if I can run a 14.2 at 5800' above sea-level you guys at sea-level should be mid-13 cars pretty easily.
As far as a 5-speed time. I do not think anyone has taken one of my chips to the track with a good clutch. I ran a 15.1 in the 5-speed at 5800' and the clutch was useless from the top of 2nd through the top of 3rd.
Down low, off the line, there is a huge difference between the TG and the Hot tune. Up in the higher Rpms 4k+ there isnt much of a noticable difference.
It seems to me like the Hot tune doesn't push as much boost, but boosts harder, due to the cooler air charge. Like you said above.
It would be easier with a 5spd that you could shift where you want and keep it in the torque range. I'll have to play with some throttle feathering come next year.
Thats good for first time out.
I would think a worn tire would perform better due to the more contact patch. Under inflating them would hurt them though since they would "CUP" from the contact patch. Sounds like alot of wind that day. Try avoiding the watter box on those tires. No burnouts either. Just do a slight burn out to Clean the tire.
Thanks. I had avoided the waterbox for all of the runs. No burnout either though. It was fairly windy that day. I ran half the runs at 35 psi in the tires and the other half at 25 psi with no noticable difference.
i ran around there when i had the car matt. IIRC 14.8 @ 92 or 93 MPH, i have the slip here somewhere
If you find the slip, let me know.