My buddy gave me a 5 speed trans from a 91 GP, i think the mounting bracket is still on it. what information am i missing for this swap? First i think its a 284?
manual flywheel, shifter+ cables, clutch pedal, MC (cut hole in floor), w-body axles, a little wiring,
does the crossover not fit w/ the 5 speed? and I need to make a custom Mount for the turbo and the 5 speed bracket? thanks guys for any help.
here is a thread that might help. http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php?topic=4202.0
most of the issues involved with the swap is probably covered somewhere in this thread.
Tim
From a 91 GP it is a 284. You will need the following
Flywheel
Clutch
Clutch Master Cylinder
Slave Cylinder
Hydraulic line that connects both
clutch pedal
Axles
Shifter
Shifter cables and small bracket that holds cables into floor
Custom turbo support bracket
Custom tuned chip
Wiring- includes soldering the big purple and yellow wires together in the harness that run to the P/N switch, and wiring in reverse light swtich, and extending speed sensor wires about a foot to reach for the manual
IMO not extremely difficult, but time consuming!
thanks, doesnt seem that bad, will axles , shifter and cables, cmc, clutch pedal work from an 89 5 speed? I found a white 89 5 speed in great condition in a junkyard...hopfully i could get a lot of stuff off that...but i think its a 282
IMO, grab EVERYTHING from the grand prix including the tranny and use that. I know they are different, and most parts will NOT interchange. Use the 282 trans and accesories
Quote from: grandprixagain on January 26, 2008, 12:25:58 PM
thanks, doesnt seem that bad, will axles , shifter and cables, cmc, clutch pedal work from an 89 5 speed? I found a white 89 5 speed in great condition in a junkyard...hopfully i could get a lot of stuff off that...but i think its a 282
Have any pics of it?? I need parts for my SE
Thanks
end HJ
The car is on a steep ass hill, id have to drag it off the hill to strip everything... TGPNick, no pics, what parts are you looking for? The windows were down, the interior was filled with water and there was a snake in it...
I need a shifter boot, knob, and cables if they are in good shape and work properly. That is, if you are not using them.
Thanks
Quote from: grandprixagain on January 27, 2008, 12:07:49 AM
The car is on a steep ass hill, id have to drag it off the hill to strip everything... TGPNick, no pics, what parts are you looking for? The windows were down, the interior was filled with water and there was a snake in it...
I still think it's best if you could pull the thing on to flat ground and use the 282 stuff.....only because it's easier to find than the 284 stuff! + they are rebuildable compared to the 284.
the 282 is rebuildable like posted but the parts are very expensive plus there is a long list of special tools needed to rebuild one. I have no clue how much money Jimmy spent on just tools to rebuild his. He did make a thread with pictures when we rebuilt his before the swap. There are some pictures of the tools needed. I am glad we rebuilt his because after pulling it apart we found some parts that wouldn't have held up long. We also had to make a shim because the shim aren't available anymore and we couldn't find a used one. Here is a link to his thread in the first post there is a link to his photbucket album the pictures of his trans apart start at the bottom of the first page. http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php?topic=3756.msg25900#msg25900
Tim
plus Tim I just found this which might help a little on cost
http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php?topic=4560.msg31796#msg31796
a snake uh, lol
If you decide to rebuild use one of these. http://www.phantomgrip.com/products.htm This will make both front tires turn equally. It will also help with torque steer and your differential will last longer.. later
Hey, this thread was a while ago but my buddy has a few 2.8 barettas sitting in his J/y, can anyone confirm if they would be 282s? Will everything interchange? Not sure if the cars have abs or how much trouble that would put me in... Its going in my stock tgp so hopefully it wont blow apart right away... i just need a few tips from you 5 speed guys, im going to just drop the drivers side subframe and have at it?
they are 282s, but they won't work in a W-body because there is no place to bolt the W-body 282 tranny mount onto the case. i guess you could get creative and make it work.
really so a 282 out of a baretta wont work in a grand prix??
i thought barettas were W-bodys... so i pretty much need everything out of a Grand Prix. Also i have a 5 speed sitting at a friends house , how can i identify what it is? Will anything work off the baretta? shifter stuff, intermediate shaft mount, axles... ? Thanks in advance.
Haha nvm my response didnt really make sense. :laugh: I meant to say on the first page that no a beretta trans will not work in a TGP.
well im sick of these crappy automatics, Turbosedan already said the trans is different so obviously im not going to use it. Ill just rape that 89 white GP and take everything. thanks for help for now im sure ill need more.
Quote from: grandprixagain on May 05, 2008, 04:57:35 PM
well im sick of these crappy automatics, Turbosedan already said the trans is different so obviously im not going to use it. Ill just rape that 89 white GP and take everything. thanks for help for now im sure ill need more.
take EVERYTHING you can even if you think you may not need it. make sure to get the simple forgettable things like the console bracket.
you will not regret the manual swap, i just did mine and it is a blast to drive.
Quote from: patgizz on May 11, 2008, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: grandprixagain on May 05, 2008, 04:57:35 PM
well im sick of these crappy automatics, Turbosedan already said the trans is different so obviously im not going to use it. Ill just rape that 89 white GP and take everything. thanks for help for now im sure ill need more.
take EVERYTHING you can even if you think you may not need it. make sure to get the simple forgettable things like the console bracket.
you will not regret the manual swap, i just did mine and it is a blast to drive.
Thats REALLY REALY GOOD advice...also don't forget about the rubber gromnet around the shifter cables as they go through the floor board.
but EVERYTHING 5 spd related...take it!
my buddy had this thing sitting around, can anyone identify if it? Im pretty sure its not a 282 and it says 91 GP in marker on the case. If any of you 5 speed guys know what it is, that would be great. thanks
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/turbograndprix/DSC00968.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/turbograndprix/DSC00966.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/turbograndprix/DSC00969.jpg)
That is definitely not a 282 nor any W-body trans. Could be the Isuzu trans..
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/063783.html#p1
yea, that's the Isuzu trans. Definitely no good behind a turbo 3.1. Could be out of a multitude of cars.. j-body, l, n, a... mount's on the wrong side for a Fiero, so not that. But yea, you don't want it.
thanks a lot man, as soon as i saw the big mount on top i kinda had the feeling it was crap. Im definately getting everything out of this 2.8 5 speed GP , as far as i know it definatly has a 282... thanks for the link thats exactly what ive been looking for...
Yep Gutless is right it is out of a fiero but can't hold the power of a 3.1 turbo? But I respectfully disagree! There are many guys putting a small block chevy on those things with no problems.
either way a 2.8 5 speed is a 282, my 88 gpse is a 5 speed with a 282. Have fun and don't forget about a retune ;)
Ken
Im not sure if this trans came from a fiero, i dont want it my buddy can keep it for his fiero... it would be more fun than his th125...
Cant wait to retune this car... especially with 10# wastegate... BTW when are you bringing that beast to the track?
Quote from: cobracmdr on May 13, 2008, 12:43:17 PM
Yep Gutless is right it is out of a fiero but can't hold the power of a 3.1 turbo? But I respectfully disagree! There are many guys putting a small block chevy on those things with no problems.
either way a 2.8 5 speed is a 282, my 88 gpse is a 5 speed with a 282. Have fun and don't forget about a retune ;)
Ken
No, I said it wasn't from a Fiero. You may disagree, but so far as I know, few to none are using the Isuzu 5 speed behind small blocks. The Getrag/Muncie 282 yes, but not the Isuzu.
oh well the point is to be safe than sorry, if your going through the trouble, dont use isuzu, the name says it all... haha
Quote from: GutlessSupreme on May 13, 2008, 04:11:51 PM
Quote from: cobracmdr on May 13, 2008, 12:43:17 PM
Yep Gutless is right it is out of a fiero but can't hold the power of a 3.1 turbo? But I respectfully disagree! There are many guys putting a small block chevy on those things with no problems.
either way a 2.8 5 speed is a 282, my 88 gpse is a 5 speed with a 282. Have fun and don't forget about a retune ;)
Ken
No, I said it wasn't from a Fiero. You may disagree, but so far as I know, few to none are using the Isuzu 5 speed behind small blocks. The Getrag/Muncie 282 yes, but not the Isuzu.
My Bad! Your right no isuzu! I should read better! :laugh:
Quote from: grandprixagain on May 13, 2008, 01:02:30 PM
Im not sure if this trans came from a fiero, i dont want it my buddy can keep it for his fiero... it would be more fun than his th125...
Cant wait to retune this car... especially with 10# wastegate... BTW when are you bringing that beast to the track?
Hopefully this Friday for the half track. Got my wideband all in and integrated into the ecm/tuner pro. I took today, tomorrow and Friday off from work so I can tune the car.......with Adam's help of course!
Ken
Dam your right on the ball... Your making me realize how f-ing lazy i am... Good luck, cant wait to hear the results.
Hey guys i got a few problems here.... i started taking the 5 speed car apart , i got a lot of stuff undone including exhaust xover, linkage, shifter and brackets center console, (cables are unhooked on both ends but still in the car), brake MC, cruise controll, ect... My problem is i need help or tips on getting the clutch pedal out and the slave cylinder is unbolted but i dont want to break the plastic line.. i need to find out how to remove the clutch pedal aseembly then id really be in business. I have to run right now but wanted to hurry up and post so i could try to get more done tomorrow. Thanks guys, later
The CMC is hooked on the clutch pedal up under the dash. you just need to pry it off the pedal and then you can turn it out of the firewall and pull it out. this will allow you to pull the CMC and slave out as a hole unit. I would advise to keep the clutch system in tact,
to remove the pedal all you need to do is unbolt the clutch pedal from the mounting bracket up underneath the dash. IT's a pain in the butt but definetly remove the driver's seat to give you more room to lie on your back and get that bolt out!
don't forget to take the brake pedal too it is not as wide as the auto pedal and the auto brake pedal won't work with the clutch pedal.
Tim
I cut my AUTO brake pedal to fit. Works just fine.
Unless you are going to replace the firewall plate, IMO there is no reason to replace the brake pedal. It's a complete PAIN IN THE ASS and you don't need to. Get in there with a sawzall and cut the brake pedal down to size!
Ok thanks a lot, if it saves me a lot of time, ill definately cut the break pedal. So how many bolts are on the clutch pedal mounting braket because so far i have the steering column hanging down so i can see up there... I dont mind getting out a few tight bolts, as long as i knew exactly where they were ill sit there all day...
Quote from: grandprixagain on May 16, 2008, 01:41:37 PM
Ok thanks a lot, if it saves me a lot of time, ill definately cut the break pedal. So how many bolts are on the clutch pedal mounting braket because so far i have the steering column hanging down so i can see up there... I dont mind getting out a few tight bolts, as long as i knew exactly where they were ill sit there all day...
What mounting bracket are you talking about? The big grey one the steering wheel mounts to?
you don't need that. In your TGP that bracket is already there. All you need is to unbolt the clutch pedal itself and bolt it into the TGP.
Ill give that a try , i appreciate the help. Im just havin a little trouble understanding how the CMC and slave line work with the pedal, i unhook the CMC line from somewhere on the pedal and then the slave cylinder pops out when i turn it? I already have the CMC resevoir unhooked.... I know its a pain in the ass but at least im learning something...
The slave cylinder is bolted to the transmission housing. [slave cyl] (http://turbosedan.com/cutlass/trans/DSC00950.JPG)
The CMC had a pushrod with a linkage that goes around a little nub on the top of the clutch petal in the car. There should be a c-clip keeping the linkage from sliding off the pedal, that has to come off, then just slide the linkage off. The clutch pedal is only attached by 1 pivot bolt. It's kinda a bitch. Cutting the steering joint boot in the parts car out of your way wouldn't be a bad idea (under the dash) so you can see what you're doing/have more hand room. [clutch master cyl] (http://turbosedan.com/cutlass/trans/DSC00951.JPG)
thanks a lot , the pics are very helpful, so the CMC slides out through the engine side of the firewall? Theres actually a few things under the dash i mgiht need, theres a little black box with a few wires coming off , i think it might go to the switch? Do i wire my neutral safety wires to the clutch pedal switch?
Yea, it comes out through the engine side. Disconnect it from the clutch pedal, remove a bolt on the engine side of the firewall, then twist and pull.
I think the black box you're talking about is the cruise control module. You don't need that. You just need the cylindrical switch on the pedal bracket that the clutch pedal hits when it's up. That's the cruise cutout. It has two brown wires coming off of it. This you just wire in series with a wire going from the brake pedal switch to the cruise module.
The other switch you need is the clutch switch on the floor pan: [clutch switch] (http://turbosedan.com/cutlass/trans/DSC00949.JPG). That gets wired in series with ignition wires.
Here's a wiring guide I typed up for the swap:
http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=61879.0
Thanks a lot man, that should make things easier. just one question, if you splice the purple and yellow wire the battery will die eventually?
nope. Consider this: whenever your auto trans is in park or neutral, the yellow and purple wires are effectively spliced.
well took me all day but i finally got it! its gotta be a 282 cause its a 88 gp. the subframe was so rusted it fell out when i pryed on it! the back side was already rotted off , luckily it was the drivers side! Gotta love the northeast! So far i got the transmission w/mount, intermediate shaft w/mount, and center console. The car is ripped to pieces so tomorrow i need to grab the cables , clutch pedal and slave assembly.
i do have a few questions :
1. I have the shift cables unhooked, whats the easiest way to slide them out?
2. Can i get axles for this transmission that will work with ABS?
3. The intermediate shaft has a small crack in it, what to do?
4. the plastic clip on the shifter that connects the shift cable is broken, can i use a shifter from a Baretta?
once i get everything straight ill rip my motor out and drop that 4t60 POS on the floor... cant wait... Thanks guys
Quote from: grandprixagain on August 14, 2008, 10:28:13 PM
well took me all day but i finally got it! its gotta be a 282 cause its a 88 gp. the subframe was so rusted it fell out when i pryed on it! the back side was already rotted off , luckily it was the drivers side! Gotta love the northeast! So far i got the transmission w/mount, intermediate shaft w/mount, and center console. The car is ripped to pieces so tomorrow i need to grab the cables , clutch pedal and slave assembly.
i do have a few questions :
1. I have the shift cables unhooked, whats the easiest way to slide them out?
2. Can i get axles for this transmission that will work with ABS?
3. The intermediate shaft has a small crack in it, what to do?
4. the plastic clip on the shifter that connects the shift cable is broken, can i use a shifter from a Baretta?
once i get everything straight ill rip my motor out and drop that 4t60 POS on the floor... cant wait... Thanks guys
I wish I could help you but I will give this a stab Ike.
1. where do you have them unhooked at the shifter or the trans? At the trans there is that hold down clamp you take off, at the shifter I don't know.
2. You can probably swap out the joint in the axle that goes to the hub with one from an automatic to get the encoder wheel portion of the axle on your manual axles.
3. Depends on where the crack is, it is aluminum so you can tig weld it up or JB weld it. You can drill a hole at either end of the crack to stop it from propogating further then weld it all up. Or get another intermediate shaft.
4. Plastic clip on the shifter no idea what that is but a berretta might work, cavalier, Fiero etc might be the same but who knows. Is it part of the shifter assembly?
good luck and don't disconnect the slave from the master if you can.......it is a bizzatch to bleed this system, don't introduce air if you don't have to.
Ken
thanks Ken, the cables are unhooked on both ends, the transmissions is home. And yes the break is part of the shifter. Also the crack is on the intermediate shaft mount i meant. The axles on the car were crap and fell apart when i pulled on them. Might go back in a few minutes even tho its raining.... Also going to call local parts store to see if i can find 5 speed axles with abs.
Quote from: grandprixagain on August 15, 2008, 08:36:31 AM
thanks Ken, the cables are unhooked on both ends, the transmissions is home. And yes the break is part of the shifter. Also the crack is on the intermediate shaft mount i meant. The axles on the car were crap and fell apart when i pulled on them. Might go back in a few minutes even tho its raining.... Also going to call local parts store to see if i can find 5 speed axles with abs.
I think the ones out of a getrag 284 will work and have the encoder wheel on them. I don't see why they would be different the 282 and 284 cases are identical I think......same with the intermediate shaft so I don't see why the axles would be different lengths. The only thing that MIGHT be different is the output shaft spline count on the 284 might have more splines but I doubt it, I don't think GM would make a special axle for that trasmission. I would do a pn cross reference on rockauto.com between say a 92 GPSE twin cam 5 speed and an 88 GPSE 5 speed and see if the axles are the same PN. That will tell you for sure. Good luck!
Ken
Update: Got brand new axles , clutch and flywheel. The motor and trans will be out of the car when i attempt to cut holes for the slave /CMC assembly and the shift cables. Does anyone know if its possible to make the CMC cut with the brake booster still in the car? Should i plan on cutting from the inside or engine bay side? Also i remember seeing a picture on here on cutting the floor for the cables... did a search but couldnt find it. any help appreciated! Ike
Quote from: grandprixagain on August 27, 2008, 12:50:23 PM
Update: Got brand new axles , clutch and flywheel. The motor and trans will be out of the car when i attempt to cut holes for the slave /CMC assembly and the shift cables. Does anyone know if its possible to make the CMC cut with the brake booster still in the car? Should i plan on cutting from the inside or engine bay side? Also i remember seeing a picture on here on cutting the floor for the cables... did a search but couldnt find it. any help appreciated! Ike
Ike
I will be in NY this weekend let me know if U need any help... later dude...
IKE I think you will have better luck cutting the cmc from the engine bay side........it will be hard with the brake master cylinder or booster in the way.......did you get the firewall plate from the donner car? If not you might want to get that fire wall plate it will save you some hassle of cutting everything.......
Damn straight Adam! Yeah Ike if you need a hand we can haul up there for a few......you are only like 2 hours away......Just not Saturday that is dyno day for me :)
Ken
Hells yea feel free to stop down, at least youll know where im at... when i get something done we should get a regular meetup going, bring meltboy.... anyone else? There were about 13 mustangs and about 20 GTOs at the track last night, figure we could run the TGPs one of these nights and people will be like WTF is going on... lol
Which track Lebanon Valley? Have not been up there since college :icon_eek: I would love to run my fobra up there.......
Does anyone know if its possible to make the CMC cut with the brake booster still in the car? Should i plan on cutting from the inside or engine bay side? Also i remember seeing a picture on here on cutting the floor for the cables... did a search but couldnt find it. any help appreciated! Ike
Ike:
I've been meaning to help you out, but I've been busy! I'll answer your q's!
In my 88 Cutlass non PM3 I was able to cut out the clutch master hole from INSIDE the engine bay. Only way to tell if you need to take out the PM3 to do it, is by trying to cut the hole with it in. If you don't have enough room, got to remove it! If you can access from inside the car, I give you MAJOR props! TIP: Do not go crazy while cutting. go VERY slow and test fit the master every cut you make. you don't want to make it to big! it's a pain in the ass to do so.
To cut the clutch cable holes, you need to go through 2 holes just to the right of the floor hump. It's EASY to go through. there should actually be an indent in the floor where you need to cut. The floor board you need to drill out with a hole saw, or drill a big hole in it and get a die grinder bit into it to make it big enough for the gromnet to fit in. Once you are through the floor board, the engine firewall just punches out easily. It's as if they made them all the same ready to punch out. IIRC it's already sort of pre-cut but still in there. But it certainly punches out easily!
Any more q's let me know. I did it last summer and still remember pretty much everything!
Thanks a lot for the help Bake, im gonna take a picture under the dash, it looks like theres a factory punch out for the CM... Once i take the engine out , ill remove all the plastic covers on the engine bay side and see if the hole actually goes through. If i remember correctly looking at the junkyard doner car, the CM is ONE layer of sheetmetal and the Cables go through 2 layers. Again, i appreciate the tips! Ike
Ken, you should bring it out, theres some pretty cool stuff up there. a dude ran a snowmobile and went a low 12 i think.... thing was LOUD.
Ike,
CMC goes through 1 layer definetly! with my die grinder it went prety quick. Cables go through 2.
There is already a hole where the CMC goes into, but it's round, and the CMC is a D-shape so you need to make it into a D for it to fit correctly.
For the cables, you reminded me of something! the actual car firewall is easy like I mentioned above. However the black skirting or protective covering that goes between the motor and firewall, you need to make a hole in that for the cables to go through. I'm sure if you looked at Ken's car you'd see exactly how they are supposed to route no problem. But you do need to get through that 3rd layer and make your own custom hole, rather than having it punched out like the floor boards.
Yeah my parts car and my car have that stupid skirt.........unless you have a 89 I don't think the 90s have that thing.........what a pain. Just drop the subframe and remove that skirt while you have the motor out. I hate that thing
Ken
Going to be making the cut for the cables tomorrow. removed a bunch of unnecessary crap today. I remember on this forum someone , maybe TGPilot or someone had a picture of the floorboard with an X where to cut... I cant find it maybe its gone... The cutting isnt going to be hard, i just need to do it in the right spot LOL. once i get this cut done, the car should be back together by mid next week.
Thanks for the PM Ken, got rained out today which sucks... I did notice something while i was draggin my 4t60 to the junk pile on my front lawn, i cleaned off a sticker that says GM SRTA Service replacement transmission assembly... That obviously means its not original... wonder if it was TGP specific or had the 3.33 dif... I was going to take the diff and junk the trans but if its not even a 3.33 id rather not. BTW i post a lot cause i get bored and this forum is cool as hell , just slow . maybe ill get some pics of the mess in front of my house. LOL
Lol my garage is a junk pile behind my cobra.........meh tons of tgp stuff I need to go through and see what I need and what I don't.
Ken
wow what a pain in the balls... need lower motor mount and pressure plate bolts and it going back in. i have to get them from the dealer cause the advanced auto bolts are loose and crappy... hear ya man, i have tons of tgp parts i dont even know why...
pressure plate bolts? Just go to lowes and get some metric grade 8.8 bolts with lock washers. You will be all set for under 10 bucks. You need a engine mount? On the front of the engine, if so go to NAPA and ask for the solid rubber mount.......can't remember the year of the car but they have them. Then you don't have to worrry about that pos hydralic on breaking.
Ken
lowes eh? Ill give it a try. Yea the motor mounts like 70 bucks or something.... crappy. i coulda spent that on a aldl cable dammit...
sweet, didnt know lowes caried 8.8 grade bolts , good to know. Also got the motor mount, got a regular replacement, it was only 36 bucks at advanced auto, cant beat it. If it doesnt rain tomorrow ill get the motor/trans in... i cant have the front of my house looking like this much longer...
Update! motor and 5 speed are in, plan on doing the linkage and CMC and slave assembly tomorrow, well see how it goes... Hey is Ken kickin around? gotta question, is there a bleeder on the slave assembly? I see a little screw but not sure...
Quote from: killinprixs on September 18, 2008, 06:29:50 PM
Update! motor and 5 speed are in, plan on doing the linkage and CMC and slave assembly tomorrow, well see how it goes... Hey is Ken kickin around? gotta question, is there a bleeder on the slave assembly? I see a little screw but not sure...
How to bleed a 282 slave cylinder
- use a scratch awl and a hammer and gently tap out the roll pin that is used to attatch the hydraulic line to the slave cylinder. some fluid will come out so hold a rag under it so it doesn't make a mess.
- remove the two 13mm nuts that hold the slave cylinder to the transmission. dump the old fluid out and set it aside for now.
- fill up a small clear container with new clean brake fluid - enough so that you can submerge the end of the hydraulic line and clearly see it.
- take the cap off the master cylinder reservoir and top it off with new brake fluid.
- have a friend get in the car and *slowly* pump the clutch pedal while you are holding the end of the hydraulic line in the container. some air should bubble out. make sure you top off the clutch master cylinder while you are doing this so you don't get air back into the system. it shouldn't take very many pumps to get the air out although you may want to do it longer to get old dirty fluid out if you need to. when you are done, have your friend hold the clutch pedal down to the floor and keep it there.
- once there is no more air coming out of the line, have another friend hold the slave cylinder at a 45* angle and fill it up with new brake fluid. with your other friend still holding the clutch pedal to the floor, reinsert the hydraulic line into the slave cylinder (make sure you lube the o-ring with brake fluid as well) and press the roll pin back into place. once the hydraulic line is attatched you can release the clutch pedal.
- reattatch slave cylinder to transmission.
- make sure master cylinder reservoir is topped off and replace cap.
This has worked for me and many others!
Good luck, it's a BITCH and there is no bleeder screw...
Bleed procedure per Adam :laugh:, pump the pedal 80 times and do this 3 times reps. Continue until pedal comes up. It works we had to do this on my friends 284 twin cam. If your clutch and slave are still tied together, as in the hydralic lines are still sealed between the slave and the master, do not separate them! Leave them together!! You will only cause problems that might not be there! Chances are the pedal trick will be all you need to get it going.
finally do not push the clutch without the master in the firewall and the slave in the transmission seated in the shift fork. You could fuxxor it all up that way to!
Ken
thanks for the tips guys... i figured there were a few ways to do it... didnt even get to touch the CMC today... actually.... the axles i had made were supposedly for 89 GP 5 speed w/ the abs rings... Driver side went in fine, passenger side went into the intermediate shaft but my wheel hub would NOT go on the spline . Also this axle looked a little short, could be wrong! I tried to use the auto axle but it was harder to manuever and i didnt get to see if it fit the intermediate shaft... does anybody know what to do???!!!
Get 88 5 speed axles and take the encoder wheel off your tgp axles and put them on your new 5 speed axles. Adam told me once you can tap the encoder wheel off with a drift pin and a hammer and they fit on the 5 speed axles. It is worth a shot at this point. Good luck Ike!
Ken
whoever said the plug on the VSS was different between 4t60 and 282 is on crack i think. 2 cents for the day
That's worth a couple of dollars in my opinion.. :bonk:
picture of my shop...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/turbograndprix/DSC01037.jpg)
Ok ike I thought I was hardcore but you are well.......I dunno man you got me beat!! Good luck I'll give you a ring next time I'm passing through!
Ken
haha i dont know about that, little by little... we'll see what today brings.
Damn I'm spoiled, I just realized that :laugh: But that's pretty much how I started working on cars...
Quote from: flybynite on September 27, 2008, 01:18:10 PM
Damn I'm spoiled, I just realized that :laugh: But that's pretty much how I started working on cars...
I used to do most of my work like that years ago. It really sucked when it was in the middle of winter + windy as hell.
I need a bigger garage.......or less cars :icon_rolleyes:
yea winter is terrible without a garage... forget it. Hey Ken, i want to finish hooking up the linkage to the transmission, is the thicker cable closer to the firewall ? I know where they go on the shifter... also, should i hook them to the trans first or the shifter or does it matter? Once i get this stuff done i can put the turbo back on : )
Yep I'm definitely spoiled, Plenty of room here.. :icon_mrgreen:
Not fair Adam! Hahah you need it! I just rented a 1 stall downtown for 50 a month to put the cobra in for the winter........and to make space for the next project :icon_mrgreen: My next house I'm buying a modest house with no garage and building a nice shop on the adjacent land with a 4 stall garage, lift, the works.......well we will see what happens!
Ike IDK about that order of the cables I guess whatever makes sense. I would think hooking them up to the shifter first then up to the tranny would be the easiest but then again I have never done this swap.......
dam , you guys do work for J leno or somethin? cables and linkage are all done... sqeezed the downpipe in there... what a tight fit! close as hell to the cables but just enough room. Next up, the cunty whore aka CMC/slave assembly...
good luck! Does not sound like fun! but it will be fun to drive!
CMC is just about done, just have to bolt my custom bracket up to make sure it doesnt pop out, i already drilled the holes (it was kinda a bitch). still have to splice the purple and yellow wire together.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/turbograndprix/DSC01042.jpg)
Nice Ike looks like my interior.....oh man you are lighting a fire under my ass.......I have a feeling that BB turbo is going to be in before I know it! :laugh:
Quote from: cobracmdr on September 29, 2008, 01:42:20 PM
....oh man you are lighting a fire under my ass....
Me too!!
My intermediate shaft showed up today, Thanks Ike... :icon_biggrin: That was the final piece to the puzzle, Now I just need a little time to figure out a few things and then disassembly begins :icon_mrgreen:
Good to hear Adam, you guys.... know my ass is geting smoked by both of you. haha ... its 98% done now... and ill have time to look everything over before the chip gets here. sweet! Shifter was a little tight going through the gears at first but a little oil fixed that : )
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/turbograndprix/DSC01043.jpg)
Lookin good Ike, It will be a blast to drive... :icon_twisted:
hehee Ike all I have is an NA 3400 right now I'm pretty sure you will smoke me ;)
If my memory is correct this will make # 4 Black TGP 5 sp"s, But definitly the first with grey interior. Awesome combo :drool:
thanks man! hey does 75w 90 sound good for gear lube?
use penzoil synchromesh, you can get it at autozone for $6.50 a quart, takes two full quarts. Or you can go to the GM dealer and get GM synchromesh for 14 bucks a quart. I would not use gear oil, synchromesh or ATF dextron/mercon if you can't find the mesh.
Ken
Yea mine has the GM mesh :icon_cool: Plus I found why the tranny went bad originally, there was a bad crack in the chassis. Check out what this awesome welder did for me.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/JimmyTGP/100_0261.jpg)
nice tig weld there!
nice! so you just took her apart? Ill be taking this 75w90 back , probably wont be getting the gm stuff tho, hope it doesnt bite me in the ass.
Everybody swears by the GM stuff, and I've read some mixed things on the Penzoil equiv. from various people. This is collectively between everyone who uses this tranny (W-bodies, Fieros, Berettas, Cavaliers, etc..)
Thanks, i will be getting the gm stuff, went to autozone... good thing they were all out. To the dealer! man i just hate going there.
I call them the Stealership :laugh: If anything is worth paying $$ for it is that stuff, put it this way when I had my old Mustang GT with a tremec 3650 guys were running GM synchromesh in them, now if a ford guy puts chevy oil in his car and tells others about it, you know it is good.
Ken
drained the fluid out, there was like half a quart from us running through the junkyard with it. haha. well got bigger problem now, cant seem to get the air out of the slave line, i filled it and tried the 3 reps of 80 but got nothing... so now what? theres no bleeder on this one, rip it right out ?
yea theres way too much air in there, gonna have to try Bake82s method , hopefully i dont breat anything taking the line off the slave... these parts are original -20 years old...
The master is full right? Keep pumping for a while before you break the line open, that should be your last resort........
Ken
update: filled her up with gm fluid... 15 bucks a quart!! those bastards! Um, got the roll pin out of the slave which i must say was verrry difficult, glad i didnt break anything! Waiting for my buddy to come over right now so we can bleed it from the line. I read all the bleeding procedures i could find on 60degree, hopefully it will firm up. I did read that the slave should be extended all the way before you fill it? I dont think mine is but im not about to pull on it... oh well thats enough yappin
ok clutch is all bled, hopefully ill be screechin em tomorrow.
Nice I'll be coming through Albany this sunday, I'll give you a ring and see how she is doing!
Ken
So.....the little straps on the end of the slave cylinder were ok? that's what I call LUCK!
clutch works but not great, drove the car up and down the road, still have to get more air out... i noticed when you remove the slave from the trans, if you force the pushrod all the way back in a few times, air will get pushed out through the cap. Also, when bleeding the CMC and hydrolic line, pushing the CMC linkage by hand is more effective because the pedal bottoms out before the linkage which traps air in the master. Also.... im missing the cap on the end of the pushrod which is stealing about an 8th inch of travel. Im just glad the car moved which means the motor/trans got put together right.
ok so the cmc/slave is screwed...just got stuck trying to pull into the gas station! wouldnt go into first until the 10th try...turned around there and drove straigh home no stopping.... guess ill try taking the line back off the slave and rebleeding everything. If that still doesnt work, im going to have to buy a brand new slave and CMC which sucks. Am i bleeding the CMC right? WTF oh well the car is fast as hell with Adams chip BTW , thanks Adam! Pulls like no tomorrow... if i could just get the dam clutch to work right! Any tips appreciated!
nevermind found the problem, CMC has bad seals....gotta wait till tuesday and i can put a stop to this BS!!
Quote from: killinprixs on October 10, 2008, 05:10:51 PM
im going to have to buy a brand new slave and CMC which sucks.
I don't think it sucks, after 18 years of use there's no way I would have put those in my car. I bought both cylinder and slave new at Rockauto. No problems yet
yea i dont know what i was thinking... It ended up being around 150 bucks for both but ill feel much better knowing i wont get stranded somewhere with dot3 all over the place...haha
aww it is no fun driving a tgp around unless there is ominous fear of being left on the side of the road due to something such as a bad CS130!!!! :laugh:
Ken
This 5 speed swap is officially FAIL as of right now. Either the fork is broke, t/o bearing screwed or clutch is busted... Need to tow the car to storage to rip it back apart. FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL Oh well it was fun while it lasted : )
Hey, don't feel too bad I still have to rip mine back apart so that I can put a stronger clutch into it. The stage 1 spec cluch was not strong enough, going to a stage 3 6 puck one.
Ike I'm sorry to hear that.........good luck with it
UPDATE- IT WORKS.... just messed with it to death and left if for about a week, came back and it worked! Couldnt believe it! Putting the car into storage to do finishing touches.... plan on beating the life right out of it next spring for causing all these headaches...
anyways, thanks to everyone for helpin me through this swap... i almost gave up like 5 times and stripped the car...someone would have definately bought the gray leather interior....