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MODIFICATIONS => Performance => Topic started by: flybynite on January 18, 2009, 07:58:15 PM

Title: Twin TGP
Post by: flybynite on January 18, 2009, 07:58:15 PM
I am seriously considering doing a twin turbo set up for the TGP, Just curious if any body else has tried it.. I installed the manual (mock up only) and there might be enough room for a GT2876R behind the trans or most definitely under the car, Just curious what you guys think.. I know it doable...  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: GPChief on January 18, 2009, 08:15:07 PM
Sounds like it would be cool.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: meltboy11 on January 19, 2009, 07:55:27 AM
DO EEEEET I would love to see that.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: jimmy on January 19, 2009, 04:06:59 PM
   Support from this corner :thumb:
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: mfewtrail on January 19, 2009, 10:27:49 PM
If I were you, I'd probably just upgrade to a larger single turbo(that's my plan for later anyways).
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: cobracmdr on January 20, 2009, 12:27:42 PM
Twin turbos will spool up faster and if you size them right Adam you can have one which will give excellent off the line response and then a larger one for top end power.  Like the 3000 GT VR4 or other imports.  That would be awsome but I'm too chicken shit for that kind of thing with my DD.  Oh who am I kidding I'll spring for it if you make it;)  I would need a manual trans conversion, oh wait I sold mine to you! hahaha

Ken
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 20, 2009, 05:07:31 PM
will someone please make one of these cars fast???
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: GPChief on January 20, 2009, 05:51:39 PM
Quote from: killinprixs on January 20, 2009, 05:07:31 PM
will someone please make one of these cars fast???

GT3071R plus 3400 top end plus 3500 UM, plus (KAZ tune)...........wont say I'll be the fastest, but until it blows up I'll be trying. :icon_mrgreen: (I'm taking all of March to "finish" this car) will post some pics as I am finishing it.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: slick94prix on January 20, 2009, 08:48:51 PM
Besides for the cool and wow factor, which both I would gleefully give, I guess my only question is why? It seems like you would have much more piping, more oil lines, another turbo, etc.... Just seems like a lot of money that could be put into a better single turbo setup.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: cobracmdr on January 20, 2009, 09:13:53 PM
Well for one the crossover cluster fuck on our cars is hardly optimal for merging exhaust gasses to make the most optimal power.  By having a TT setup each manifold could flow to a turbo getting rid of all the exhaust gasses bouncing off each other on the way to the turbo.  Then the exhaust can go straight out the back off the turbo and not down by the powermaster.  Sure another set of oil and coolant lines big deal,  You can run a turbo without coolant lines if you have proper oil cooling in place and maybe even higher capacity of oil.  It would be more complicated but I give Adam props for thinking outside the box.  I suggest you guys read a book called maximum boost you will learn all the ins and outs of turbocharging systems.

Ken
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: flybynite on January 21, 2009, 06:16:20 AM
Quote from: mfewtrail on January 19, 2009, 10:27:49 PM
If I were you, I'd probably just upgrade to a larger single turbo(that's my plan for later anyways).
Single turbo = lag    I have been down that road before.. I would like my car to spool before 3-3.5k..  I am thinking of using the stock turbo + a GT2876R for the best results.. Like Ken said one would get me going down low and the other would come in @ 3-3.5k and get things moving.. Plus 400hp at the wheels would be easier to do and less strain on the engine... Not to mention I would have the only TTGP in the world... 12s in the quarter would be a lot more doable also..   :icon_mrgreen:     I also just started a project on my IROC-Z,  I have a used Twin Turbo set up for it. I am planning on boosting a 434 CID motor. With my calculations it will make 750rwhp @ 6psi of boost with 12psi being the max...Ummm  can you say fun....
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: cobracmdr on January 21, 2009, 07:07:14 AM
Damn!
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 21, 2009, 01:27:54 PM
Adams goin for 9s....
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: slick94prix on January 21, 2009, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: cobracmdr on January 20, 2009, 09:13:53 PM
Well for one the crossover cluster fuck on our cars is hardly optimal for merging exhaust gasses to make the most optimal power.  By having a TT setup each manifold could flow to a turbo getting rid of all the exhaust gasses bouncing off each other on the way to the turbo.  Then the exhaust can go straight out the back off the turbo and not down by the powermaster.  Sure another set of oil and coolant lines big deal,  You can run a turbo without coolant lines if you have proper oil cooling in place and maybe even higher capacity of oil.  It would be more complicated but I give Adam props for thinking outside the box.  I suggest you guys read a book called maximum boost you will learn all the ins and outs of turbocharging systems.

Ken

Owned it for the last 4 years, and have read it through and through several times  :laugh:

Yeah, I totally agree, however, and correct me if I am wrong here, would the 3500 heads enough flow enough to allow that much through? Then you got to take the intake manifolds into consideration, which are crazy bottlenecks. However, if he is going for that fast of time, I'm quite positive nothing will even be remotely stock about them.

Also, if you have a smaller turbo on one bank, and a larger on another, wouldn't you experience a slight pulsation in the air from the turbos since one would flow xCFM, the other flowing a larger xCFM?
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: TGed on January 21, 2009, 03:48:49 PM
This is how the exhaust would be planned out.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/jh7nud.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 21, 2009, 04:41:01 PM
Quote from: GPChief on January 20, 2009, 05:51:39 PM
GT3071R plus 3400 top end plus 3500 UM, plus (KAZ tune)...........wont say I'll be the fastest, but until it blows up I'll be trying. :icon_mrgreen: (I'm taking all of March to "finish" this car) will post some pics as I am finishing it.

sounds like im going a similar route.  are you modifying the stock manifolds/crossover pipe? .63 or .82?  looking for forward to seeing pics.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: GPChief on January 21, 2009, 06:33:05 PM
Quote from: killinprixs on January 21, 2009, 04:41:01 PM
sounds like im going a similar route.  are you modifying the stock manifolds/crossover pipe? .63 or .82?  looking for forward to seeing pics.

Uhhhhh .63 or .82 What?

I've been working on this car off and on since 2006, this will be the first summer home since 2003 :icon_rolleyes:

I have ported the stock exhaust manifolds into "D" shaped ports.  I want to port my crossover and get some more flow out of it.  Also planning on a 3" downpipe "modified" to fit with the powercrapper III.

I've got 30 & 38 lbs injectors, not sure which Ill use just yet.  Got my WB 02 yesterday :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 21, 2009, 06:45:35 PM
if your buyin a gt30 you have to pick between .63/.82 unless your going 1.06!!!
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: GPChief on January 21, 2009, 07:02:34 PM
I'm such a NEWB...still not sure what your refering to.  Here are the specs

       Compressor Specs :
              4" Compressor Inlet
              54mm inducer
              70mm Major
              2.5" Outlet
              Compressor .70 A.R.
              Compressor 52 Trim
              M24 / T4 Compressor Housing
        Turbine Specs :
              T25/T28 Type Turbine
              T25 4 bolt flange
              Turbine .86 A.R.
              Turbine 76 Trim
             
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 21, 2009, 09:08:29 PM
sounds like its gonna be a beast... ive had my 3400 swapped car on hold for a while now... makes me want to get off my ass!
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 22, 2009, 05:15:04 PM
so shitty up here in NY.... Adam any progress??
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: flybynite on January 22, 2009, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: killinprixs on January 22, 2009, 05:15:04 PM
Adam any progress??
Yes, I put he auto back in place and found some extra room for a turbo... That's about it...
Quote from: slick94prix on January 21, 2009, 03:24:55 PMAlso, if you have a smaller turbo on one bank, and a larger on another, wouldn't you experience a slight pulsation in the air from the turbos since one would flow xCFM, the other flowing a larger xCFM?
It's all in how you merge them together... Also i am not planning on maxing out both turbos. I just would like a clean 16psi with not much heat involved from the turbos...  ;)
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: GPChief on January 22, 2009, 07:31:17 PM
Theres always the electric turbos................................sometimes I kill myself :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: cobracmdr on January 23, 2009, 05:53:14 AM
Quote from: GPChief on January 22, 2009, 07:31:17 PM
Theres always the electric turbos................................sometimes I kill myself :laugh: :laugh:

Ban!

BTW thanks Adam make an Auto kit.  I kind of like the auto right now ;)

Ken
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 23, 2009, 03:01:48 PM
making shit fit and making shit happen= Adams the man
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: TurboGTU on January 30, 2009, 09:46:18 AM
If GM cramed two turbos on the beretta, then the TGP is a breaze.  ;)
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on January 30, 2009, 10:56:37 AM
dam 385hp on 16 psi on the 3.3.
http://www.berettastuff.com/reference/prototypes.shtml# (http://www.berettastuff.com/reference/prototypes.shtml#)
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: TGed on February 01, 2009, 08:12:52 PM
Just think, the tc's are probably undersized, few restrictions (exhaust, intake etc etc) and that is only at 16 psi.

Put two or one properly sized turbocharger/s on it and 3" exhaust it with a decent charge pipe/intake setup....  ZOOMa Zoom ZOOOM!
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: mongoose on March 05, 2009, 10:54:34 PM
how can you read the bigger boost + regulate fuel flow/larger injectors with the existing 2 bar sensor and stock computer? I always run into the wall about here and dream about either methanol injection with the existing 22# injectors or buying an evil alien robot capable of making me a new TGP computer that can handle a 3 bar sensor.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: flybynite on March 06, 2009, 06:34:42 AM
Quote from: mongoose on March 05, 2009, 10:54:34 PM
how can you read the bigger boost + regulate fuel flow/larger injectors with the existing 2 bar sensor and stock computer? I always run into the wall about here and dream about either methanol injection with the existing 22# injectors or buying an evil alien robot capable of making me a new TGP computer that can handle a 3 bar sensor.
Once you understand and can manipulate the TGP code the sky is the limit. I have run over 20psi on the 2bar code with no issues at all...   :icon_biggrin:  I also made a 3 bar patch for the TGP code and trust me it was a waste of my time..
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: elyturbo on March 07, 2009, 07:53:47 AM
   Hi guys. Any progress on the twin turbo set up? I will like to see that set up at work too. Now, about the 3 bar map swap, I have looked at it for a few days, checked few posts here and couple other sites and got lost. Doesn't remember were I have been anymore and end up reading the same posts over and over. It always looks like it's imposible, unless we run a stand alone or a heck of a program in the TGP. Not that it is a bad thing, but the options seems expensive for a 300hp project.
   So, if the 3 bar has the same power input (5 volts) as the 2 bar map and the voltage signal out of the 3 bar at the same boost level is lesser and by changing the 2 bar to a 3 bar we would basically decrease the voltage signal by 50%, why not increasing the injector size by 50% to compensate the difference in voltage? If we have #24 injectors, shouldn't a set of #36 work on a 3 bar with the stock fuel maps?
   It has work on Hondas for years now, people change the stock map to a 2 bar, double the injector size and run boost on the stock computer. I actually ordered a set of #36 EV1 injectors and a Delphi 3 bar map last night to try on my TGP, but if someone had tried this before and didn't work, please let me know so I can ebay this part before opening the pacakages.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: kuntzie on March 08, 2009, 12:44:01 AM
lets see if you can keep up to me
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: flybynite on March 09, 2009, 06:24:09 AM
Quote from: elyturbo on March 07, 2009, 07:53:47 AM
   Hi guys. Any progress on the twin turbo set up? I will like to see that set up at work too. Now, about the 3 bar map swap, I have looked at it for a few days, checked few posts here and couple other sites and got lost. Doesn't remember were I have been anymore and end up reading the same posts over and over. It always looks like it's imposible, unless we run a stand alone or a heck of a program in the TGP. Not that it is a bad thing, but the options seems expensive for a 300hp project.
   So, if the 3 bar has the same power input (5 volts) as the 2 bar map and the voltage signal out of the 3 bar at the same boost level is lesser and by changing the 2 bar to a 3 bar we would basically decrease the voltage signal by 50%, why not increasing the injector size by 50% to compensate the difference in voltage? If we have #24 injectors, shouldn't a set of #36 work on a 3 bar with the stock fuel maps?
   It has work on Hondas for years now, people change the stock map to a 2 bar, double the injector size and run boost on the stock computer. I actually ordered a set of #36 EV1 injectors and a Delphi 3 bar map last night to try on my TGP, but if someone had tried this before and didn't work, please let me know so I can ebay this part before opening the pacakages.
It sounds possible but either way you will need lots of fine tuning.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: mongoose on March 10, 2009, 01:37:31 PM
wow ok - well I guess I don't understand the existing computer setup as well as I should - so theoritically I could throw in a Garrett T-3 with no problem? That'd be ideal in my case anyway :)
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: killinprixs on March 10, 2009, 05:21:24 PM
i would like to ask Kuntzie how that is working out for him or how much tuning was necessary (cough cough spill the god dam beans)  but it really doesnt matter seeing how a 3 bar goes up to 28 PSI and the highest anyone would possibly run is 17-19 which can be manipulated in the code with a 2 bar. seems like a whole lotta injector for nothing.
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: NTRCOOL on March 11, 2009, 03:40:21 PM
It might be a good idea to relocate the battery to the trunk and mount one of the turbos you decide on in that area. just a thought...
Title: Re: Twin TGP
Post by: kuntzie on March 12, 2009, 12:03:58 PM
my car is currently in toronto ontario (actually north york) getting tuned,  the guy has over 10hrs of tuning on it (dyno tuning mainly) and its maxing out 50# injectors at 11psi, im going to be getting some 60s put in and hes going to havbe to do more tuning. as for numbers, i did break my 302whp at the early stages of tuning, but ill leave the official numbers for a few weeks till i get it back again and see the 18psi dyno run. i am definitly going to say that i have made numbers no one else has on a 3.1 GM engine, which really isnt a suprise with the work that has gone into this.