TGPForums.com

Ok my name is lucus....got a couple question on the grand prix mclaren....my is the 1990 grand prix with the black and tan interior....ive been told its really rare....ok my problems with the braking system......the brake pedal has no pressure what so ever until i get closer to the floor....when i get close to the full i have pressure and it kinda losses pressure but not really......and it wont kick back up to shut the brake lights off i have to lift it myself everything that ive done doesnt seem to work....ive bled them millions of times....but this is my problem i only have one brake and that is the front driver side....its very strong.....but none other grab execpt everytime i bleed them i can get the driver side rear to grab right after i bleed them....ok well it lasts mabye a day if im lucky...but after that its just that one break....and this is what i dont get i get fluid to every tire has a strong nice stream expect the passger rear...it is isnt like the others its a nice stream but not a strong one....ok....last summer some dum fuck pulled out in front of me and i ran into him....i was only doing about 25 to 20....no severe damage....but i did take off the front clip....n come to find out i have alot of shit that is missing n i mean alot....ill get more into that later......anyways with the brakes i found the protioning valve took it to the part store they told me to do some ways to fix clean it out and try some other things....but i havent put it on yet but will when i get the chance....before takin the protioning valve off the car i was bleeding the brakes and i notice that there was a screwy thing that looks like you can take off n there is this little hole around that nut....well i had my buddy stick his figure over it and well lets just say i had a strong firm pedal until he takes his figure off.....so idk....can you guys give me some help plz n thank you

just about everything to do brakes for a mclaren GP is in here somewhere.
http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php/topic,3702.0.html (http://www.tgpforums.com/index.php/topic,3702.0.html)

are you the guy with no front clip doing reverse donuts on youtube?
anyway, you must have a leak if your bleeding it and you loose pressure after a short amount of time, also if you dont already know, the ignition key needs to be on when you bleed it.  The brake lights staying on , theres a switch thats a pain in the ass to adjust but its not too bad, once you get it dont pull back on the pedal or it will screwed again.  good luck and welcome to tgpforums.

yes i am

well it sounded good i wouldnt beat on it... spinning the tires in reverse is really bad... the auto trannys on these cars are the weakest point so enjoy them while they last... sounds like the rev limiter is a little higher is it stock chip?

well idk ....ya on the tech she will peg it past 7 grand on the tech so i have no clue...do you have any clue about my braking problem...the tranny in it leaks im sure it need new seals...n i def need to get the filter changed for it to

as far as i kno she is stock i have a cherry bomb were the cat used to be....when i bought her i drove it around for awhile cuz i was so amazed from the power...then i get home n it looked like something was glowing under the car n it wasa the cat...glowing red hot!!!so i had to hack it off and replace it

and my bad about not seeing that lol....and how do you find that switch....and how in the world do you adjust it? we have looked at it but we thought about just getting one out of a a junkd prik but we havent deiceded yet...did you the more info on youtube?...n thanks for welcoming

I wouldn't expect the car to last long if you keep beating on it like that.

lol....you own on you need to lay it down everyonce in awhile.....even if she is beenin sitting i only start her ever so often so i work it in a bit

and is leaking not alot but it does drip......i was told there is alittle ball in the protioning valve that its common they get stuck is that so???thats how i only get one brake and not so much pressure but i still do..

Quote from: blackntan on February 03, 2009, 09:38:39 PM
and is leaking not alot but it does drip......i was told there is alittle ball in the protioning valve that its common they get stuck is that so???thats how i only get one brake and not so much pressure but i still do..

If the proportioning valve is leaking, it's bad and needs to be replaced. GM should still have them available. 88927272
You might want to check with GMpartsdirect.com as it will be cheaper there.

Seriously man, take it easy on the poor car.  It is 19 years old.  "Laying it down" is not throwing it in reverse and redlining the everliving crap out of it... in the middle of winter with a rare car no less.  Beating on such a rare car is frowned upon here, I would suggest that you stop.

Quote from: TGP Nick on February 03, 2009, 09:55:59 PM
Seriously man, take it easy on the poor car.  It is 19 years old.  "Laying it down" is not throwing it in reverse and redlining the everliving crap out of it... in the middle of winter with a rare car no less.  Beating on such a rare car is frowned upon here, I would suggest that you stop.

ok thanks if wat else can you find on there?

By the way...Did you know that you need to bleed the rear brakes with the key in the on position?

Here's a bit more information on the Powermaster III brake system we have: http://www.kazmotorsports.com/tpsgarage/TGP/brakes/powermaster.htm

I don't understand your question.

ya ive always bled the brakes with the key on....and about what question was is what all parts can you find the on that web site

Quote from: blackntan on February 03, 2009, 10:32:29 PM
ya ive always bled the brakes with the key on....and about what question was is what all parts can you find the on that web site

GMPartsDirect has pretty much anything your local dealer can get you, but cheaper...the only problem is shipping can be slow on some items. For most stuff, you'll probably need to know a part # for whatever you need beforehand as GMPartsDirect's online catalog seriously SUCKS. They hardly list anything in it. Check out the "common part numbers" thread in the "General" section here. I posted a link to some pictures of a Pontiac Grand Prix parts catalog scan that covers most part #'s.

alright thanks alot.....is there any other ways people has tried to bleed these things...or suggestions

theres really no point in bleeding it if you said the proportioning valve is leaking but its just like any car except you need the ignition ON.  2 man job i hope you know, someone pumps the pedal up and holds it, someone cracks the bleeder for a second then closes it.  Repeat and get as much air out then move to next bleeder.  the correct order is rear pass, rear driver, front pass, front driver.

ok people....i may now shit about cars....n i may not be the best braking guy in the world...but wat the fuck is a pmiiii ive seen it everywere with the braking system i have no idea what the hell it stands for!!!!! and tomorrow....i bought a proptioning valve so ill see what it does!!

The brake master cylinder..

Powermaster III, GM's pathetic excuse for an ABS system.  Some of us have taken ours out in favor of the much simplier and less troublesome non-ABS system.

do you still have the same stoping power and honestly how much work we lookin at....cuz i have really thought about it ive seen like hundreds of priks.....and would like to but how is the stoping power

driving mine as my daily driver here in michigan where we have gotten almost 66 inches of snow this winter, I like having the anti-lock feature. i was wondering if anyone has ever tried an abs VI conversion or if it is even possible in the space available. i had the pump motor relay go bad just recently on the powermaster III. had a hard time finding one as they are discontinued. vintage part is going to sell the rest of GM'S inventory. they retailed at $185 but all of the parts sites were anywhere from $97- $145, but they are not available anymore.

well what im asking....is everything to the T of what i need to pull ones out of like an se the ste or any where from 89 threw 95......if 95 will work i want to pull on out but what i mean is what exactly do i need to get....i have found very few with the abs system but its not the same master cynder its alittle different....

I think ABS IV is too big, it won't with the turbo and downpipe.  Swapping to non-abs is a lot of work.  You need to tear apart the dash and swap the firewall plate the abs unit is attached to for a non-abs plate from a donar vehicle.

well guys...things are looking good....im just getting around to it...today will be the real test...i plan on being at the storage for awhile i got to find where the tranny is leakin...its been leaking for awhile now....prolly cuz im already swapped it once...so lets hope for a warm day!!!!!

ok....lets start out by saying you can not do this brakin system with out some time of a constant charge on the battery  :icon_redface:i dont know y this car trains so much power but it sure as hell doesnt take long to make a battery to go dead thats for sure....main ? can you plead the brakes while the car is running? i kno that it has to be on the on poistion but wat about it running???!!! 2 i got to lookin and i notice in the driver side brake line were its attached to the inner wheel well....and goes into a rubber hoes well thats leakin...and wat i dont get is how the fuck is that possible when thats my only brake that would work....weird most definitly....3 i notice on the passenger side tire the senser isnt even plugged in the plug is pretty much broke....would that be a reason y i dont have a brake on that side but i get fluid....3 came to the conclosin that the tranny is leakin on the bottom so im sure it needs new seal like i said and at the same tiime should just change the filter....got any ideas peps thanks :icon_question: :icon_twisted:

***GRUMBLE GRUMBLE***

Buy a Ford Escort

Please keep this ontopic. Further comments about how the original poster treats his car will be removed asap. It's really none of our business how he treats his car, as it is his car.

As for that transaxle fluid leak, check the pan gasket on the bottom where the filter is located, the side pan gasket towards the driver's side, and all the cooler lines leaving the transaxle. It wouldn't hurt to trace them all the way to the passenger side front fender where the auxillary cooler resides just to make sure everything is in good shape. The rubber portions of the line can get in pretty bad shape over the years.

if your not getting any fluid down to the other 3 lines you got some problems!! Is that what you mean, your typing is extremly unclear, (i dont mean to be rude, just having a hard time understanding!) No that little brake pump shouldnt run the battery down real quick, also yes you could have the car running while bleeding the brakes, if the cars in park and you have the car on 4 stands or just flat on the ground youd be fine.

ok so now that i got my ? anwsered for the most part im going to try my best to explain this alittle better...ok right front tire abs sensor wasnt plugged in and the plug is brokin....could this be a reason that i dont have brake to the front right side but yet i get brake fluid.....2 i get fluid to all my brakes but yet only the front left grabs....i notice on the inner wheel wel where the brake line turns into a rubber hose its leaking but yet its my main brake how does that work??!!....i have not been able to work on it but tomorrow i plan on getting a new hose for the front right side since its leaking...is that clearer or no? 

You may have some seized calipers.  Raise it off the ground and spin the wheels.  Do they stop or at least slow the wheel?

sounds like seized calipers, fairly common on these cars

I apologize, on the first page, you were asked if you owned the car doing all those burnouts, and you answered you were. Now you are saying it isnt you, but a freind of yours, and you are just trying to fix the car. So, if you arent the owner, than I have no probs with you, but do me a favor, next time he is out doing this stuff, slap him across the back of the head for me (and I am sure a few others on here would also like it). By far the weakest part of these cars are a tie inbetween the brake systems, and the tranny's, as you are finding out with the brake systems.

As for your problems with the brakes, it could be that the rubber brake lines have colapsed internally, which is blocking the brake fluid from making it to the master calipers. Have you checked the fluid diverter underneath the rear of the car. Known place for these brake systems to leak fluid. The brake system does use quite a bit of power, thats why its recomended that you either have the car started, or on a battery charger. Dont want the brake system trying to charge the brake system on a half charge battery, it can lead to motor failure.

When you are bleeding the brakes, is it clear fluid coming out of the brake line bleeder? if it isnt, keep bleeding the system on the right rear wheel until the fluid is clear, than repeat the process as noted in this thread for proper bleed.

pontiac6ksteawd-- no problem.....i am the guy who is recording the stupid acts....any how you really got me thinking now that you say the color of the fluid....on the right front caliper it is a rusty brown color...thats really good to kno so i will bleed it till clear....and yes the proptioning valve i have always new that it leaked and i got....i wanna apologize for being an ass....but i dont wanna be accused as the driver or the owner of the car....but i put more time into this car then he ever does mainly cuz he lives in the cities n its like a 15 min drive from me so i get a chance to when i can..he just blows it off watever....im not gonna lose a tear over it....but this car is alot of time thats for sure and i would take care of her....ive beat some cars in my whole 4 years id never beat on that baby even tho she isnt much but this car has potential and id hate for it to sit around until he works on and let time take affect forget that or watch it blow up....we have an agreement that if i fix it up he is gonna let me keep it and sign the title so i guess i could lose a tear but watever ....anyways tomorrow ill be workin on her for awhile thanks for bringin up the color of the fluid any ideas on the abs senser??? and why isnt turning on the abs light on the dash??!!

I know what you mean by potential. This was my TGP when I began my 4 year endevor..

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v295/LaPurr/89%20and%2090%20Pontiac%20Turbo%20Grand%20Prix/Befor%2090%20TGP/

This is how she looks now, after alot of blood sweat and tears..

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v295/LaPurr/89%20and%2090%20Pontiac%20Turbo%20Grand%20Prix/After%2090%20TGP/

haha you could have at least taken the burger king cup out... J/k  great job man she was rough!  OH and about the black car... it fucking killed me when he did the reverse donut and hit the garage door i was like arrrrrrrggggh FUCKER!

Another thing for ya, when you turn on the ignition, where all the lights turn on, this is the light check, does your ABS light turn on? Does the Brake light turn on?

Althou these might not work, these clusters are known to have problems, so the lights might not even work.

ya she is rough....ill tell ya that....when we bought the car it looked the same only it had the hood n drunk lid......like it had no front bumper and missing a fender slapped just a se bumper and fender on it so it was able to drive....o and the lights were there.....anyways about the lights on the cluster....the brake light will come on and always stays on....always has i just figured something about the ebrake but yes the brake light is on......i wasnt able to work on her today 30 mph winds n blowing snow so it was cold as shit out....and your car looks pretty nice from when you bought it i should start takin pics of her and she if i can get it complete

o and another thing anybody had problems with the speedometer on the tac its way off but my hud is correct...like the speedometer is like 30 mph off...any idea's how to fix that

They tend to have problems with that too.  There is post here somewhere if smeone can help me to advise what can be done about repair or a place that repairs them.

Speedo off? LOL, you havent seen anything until you have seen my speedo. I have dueling guages, the tach goes all the into the speedo area, and hits the speedo needle...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/LaPurr/89%20and%2090%20Pontiac%20Turbo%20Grand%20Prix/th_TGP1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v295/LaPurr/89%20and%2090%20Pontiac%20Turbo%20Grand%20Prix/?action=view&current=TGP1.flv)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/LaPurr/89%20and%2090%20Pontiac%20Turbo%20Grand%20Prix/th_TGP2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v295/LaPurr/89%20and%2090%20Pontiac%20Turbo%20Grand%20Prix/?action=view&current=TGP2.flv)

if i do remeber right mine wouldnt go that far......the rev limiter would stop it from goin into the speedo area.....its been off ever since we got it....and the hud you really cant see in the day time so like i guess lol but what do you mean by dueling guages....i notice that your turbo tach doesnt move....whats up with that...and thats crazy mine never hit the speedometer lol

The boost guage works, and then it doesnt. It all depends on how warm it is outside. I gotta get my cluster rebuilt. But I am not that good with that style of electronics, so I am going to be looking to send it to someone to get fixed. but I havent found anyone that does it yet.

EDIT: What I mean by Dueling guages is they are like 2 swordsmen fighting, or dueling, at least I think thats the right word for it.

ok i see.....ya i dont know what the deal is with the speedometer but it really doesnt matter.....i just figured id ask......tomorrow i plan on going to work on it depending on my weather....but im waitin for tax returns so i can get some parts for it....ill keep you up dated on the brakes....and possibly get that finshed i wont be on till i work her so i can give ya new updates on it thanks guys!!!!

Quote from: mfewtrail on February 03, 2009, 10:21:58 PM
By the way...Did you know that you need to bleed the rear brakes with the key in the on position?

Here's a bit more information on the Powermaster III brake system we have: http://www.kazmotorsports.com/tpsgarage/TGP/brakes/powermaster.htm

this link does not work

HAHA I have 4 gauge cluster and only one is lose enough for me to stand. The one says I am going 120 mph sitting still, another one works like a tach and just keeps going from 0 to whatever it feels like. But when I got my car all 4 calipers were frozen. I feel your pain about the car trust me. I have had anything that could go wrong, go wrong. Everytime I go to my buddies garage I have a power steering leak , HAHA go figure that out. First the pump goes, second time the o ring on the line goes missing. And NO MORE KILLING THAT CAR, LOL. Mine was rough and still is, but getting better, so keep at it PLEASE. If not someone here will fix it right. These guys know what they are talking about.

Quote from: 89BlackTGP on February 23, 2009, 03:29:54 AM
this link does not work

It works for me.

Try this link and follow it to the brakes section.
http://www.kazmotorsports.com/tpsgarage/

yep now it works.. thanks

ok guys.....got some good news n got some bad news.....bad news....protioning valve after getting a new one freakin leaks...........and my front right tire will not grab when in the air or on the ground....better news is that my rear is grabbing like crazy.....n its never done that before....so im almost postive that its froze/locked...

can you only upload on picture on your profile

any idea's about the fuel light always staying on.....and something that came up today was that the left front line has a hole in it after replacing the rubber hose its got a hole in the hard line!!!

Fuel light is a common problem on these clusters. It means the cluster needs to be rebuilt. I think there is a "how to" some where here on the forum, but I dont know where.

Hard line, if you are up in the northeast, thats to be expected for them to be rotted out. Not sure how hard they are to replace thou, havent done it myself.

The CHECK GAUGES and low fuel light being stuck on or flickering is a common issue.

Here's a writeup on how to fix it: http://www.w-body.com/service/checkgauges.html

brake lines and hoses should be replaced as pairs. They go out for a reason.  Better to be safe than sorry.

had my check gauges/fuel light issue, resoldering it fixed it for good! Definatly worthwhile, and DEFINATLY do the INTERCOOLED TURBO mod part too, just sand the black off the back of where it says that on the cluster and it lights up at night. I thought it was a cool little addition to do while the cluster was out.

ok guys.......i replaced all lines and front brakes got the front end on it everything....well remember how i was only getting one brake ya well its dum after replacing...the lines and calipiers i only have rear brakes and they have a major delay...the front is not grabbing at all...and then to top it off the protioning valve that i got ya it was leaking...now its just shooting out like a rocket out the little hole.....umm if anyone is in a bigger city or may know a place in a bigger city that you can take the MC to get fixed where would it be?!?!?! cuz we have it dis mounted and the owner of the car took the MC to des moines with him so if you could help us out that would be sweet......how can you up load pictures so i can show you what it looks like with the front end on it.....

Go to photobucket.com and make an account, its free and you can upload your pictures there.

if thats the tgp in the pic under your name looks like your put a 94-96 nose on it..

its a 94 front clip.....and still no replies on where we can take the master cynder??? o and you guys said that the pump should kick on every 3-5 pumps...nope it turns on every press....so does that mean its shot.....and it would do it when the protioning valve wasnt shooting out like a bottle rocket....so any idea's where you can take it to get fixed or no idea's?

You probably just need to replace the accumulator on the master cylinder.  I would fix the prop. valve first and see if that changes anything though.

.... do we have a part number one the accumulator??.....and i will replace it...but if that one leaks thats b.s........if a 94 has abs systems could i us that same set up....or should i stick with what i got?? until we can figure out what the problem is

When the PM3 system fails on my car, I am going to convert it back to basic vacume brakes. More reliable, easier to get parts for, and much cheaper...

But it is a involved process. You have to take out the dashboard if memory serves me right..

well....we have the MC out of the car.....do we have to replace the brake booster....i remember someone saying you have to take something out that has to do with the brake pedal or something along the lines...new pictures....still got to have a paint job and thats comin up real soon...lovin the weather its nice out!!!!!!!!

Try this:

http://www.kazmotorsports.com/tpsgarage/


HTH

Love the front clip.....I have a complete 1995 B4U body kit I may put on this winter. If I have not blow up my car by then...

did you figure out how to post pictures yet?

Quote from: 89BlackTGP on March 18, 2009, 03:29:55 AM
did you figure out how to post pictures yet?

I can tell you now that the 94-96 front end looks very out of place on a TGP or 91-93 style B4U car. I have pictures of another car that someone did that on about 7-8 years ago. ;)

http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss86/blackngray30/


let me kno if thats right or not...not for sure....we may think we found someone that will rebuilt the master cynder for us but not for certain yet... there is a couple new you tube video's if you wanna check them out....