Yea, so after some time off from work at the truck shop... I started working on the TGP. I'm so far into it that theres no going back to the 4t60s. About to do some cutting on the engine cradle. It looks stright foward. Still need to center it to the cv axles. PMIII seems like it will only work with it. Too little room for the vacume booster. So I found a 90s Jaguar XJ6 brake accumulator to use on it. Not a perfect lenth where it screws in..but it works. Just enough threds. Just need to take apart and reseal my PMIII. See what I can rebuild on it. If not...off to adapt another unit like it or search for a soso PMIII.
Cool, progress pics are a must!
I wonder if the 4t80 will fit in a Beretta?
If you find out the main physical obstacle please let me know so I can cogitate a method around it.
4t80 is overkill for a beretta... let alone will even clear the firewall mounted rack setup. Save for a 4t65. 2600lbs vs the TGP 3500lbs give or take.
Will get those pics.
The CV ends to the hubs is a little diffent. They physicly fit but they don't have the ABS rings and a step on them. Mine were from a 95 Olds Aurora, maybe caddy are diffent. Tried swapping ends from the TGPs but the 80es axles are beefier at the end. And tried using the sphireical guts into them..but GP are larger...that don't make sence. Oh well. No ABS so it looks. Worst 3hrs spent...nasty shit everywhere.
Just need to cut where the starter area is at by the tranny to clear the engine craddle and by the drivers side ...its a fat ass. Was going to cut..but the CVs stole the day. Pontiac Jeff did this to a larger Bonie. So I said...It should work on this wide track TGP. :icon_rolleyes: . Father still has doubts.
It may be over kill, but I am sick and tired of not finding a 3 speed trans capable (at a reasonable price) of handling power/tq and a 4t60 is going to net me same reasoning/problems. Ideally if there were a 3T80 ever built that would bolt up (like the 4T80) and play right, I'd rather do that instead.
Are you using a 4T80 or 4T80E?
You are aware of the rear bolt that needs to be tapped and the ears need to be hacked up for this swap? Also, in order to retain A/C you will need to alter the mounting system a little using a H/L body style front mount and posibly still cutting the front frame crossmember.
I will probably look into this for the beretta still, if the cost stays affordable and I feel like making something of it I might just do it. Will not be the first or last experiment(s) that I have done and it might work too (like some have) .
Quote from: TGed on May 13, 2009, 09:53:30 PM
It may be over kill, but I am sick and tired of not finding a 3 speed trans capable
An old article that I read said that there were 50 AWD 6000 STEs built with the LG5 3.1T. The article (as I recall, it's been a really long time) also said that the transmissions (TH125 with transfer case) held up to the turbo V6.
Do you know there power output goal? 400wtq and 375wHP is the goal. Also you have to remember the rarity for the parts THEY may have used might not be very easily accessible for public people, especially nowadays.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/TurboGTU2/Photo_051409_006.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/TurboGTU2/Photo_051409_005.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/TurboGTU2/Photo_051409_004.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/TurboGTU2/Photo_051409_002.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/TurboGTU2/Photo_051409_001.jpg)
Not nice pics..but you get what u paid for.. :laugh:
U can see where I notched the engine for the tranny. Still need to drill a hole and weld a nut on it. Might drill out the other holes on the tranny because two are coved up. Already drilled the flywheel for the converter. The cradle is not cut yet.
Could you measure this for me please?
(http://i44.tinypic.com/rtjdib.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/Photo_051409_009.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/Photo_051409_008.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/Photo_051409_007.jpg)
Its all cut up now. I still need to weld the rear mount for the trans or make it hang like the olds had it on the frame rail. ALso need to weld to reinforce the cradle. If I don't like that, I might just snag a caddy cradle and adapt it to the TGP.
The trans isn't that much fatter from the bell housing to the rear pan..its just thick from top to bottom unlike the 4t60s where it slims down from the bottom to clear the trans mount and cradle. Will get those messurements.
That 4T80 is a monster! What made you choose the 80 over the 65-E? I know it's stronger, but the 65-E can be built to handle just about anything you can throw at it...
EDIT: About that Jaguar accumulator...What are those pre-charged to? Our stock accumulators are pre-charged to 1200psi and that's increased to between 2200-2700psi for braking. I've seen "1500psi" ratings for the Jaguar accumulator, but I'm not sure if that was the pre-charge pressure or working pressure.
Right now I don't have 2grand to spend on the 65e I have. And then worry if the Diffential will hold and the CV axles will hold. Thise axles make the TGP units look like pencils at the tranny end.
I don't know about the accumulator. If it works it works. THe pressure switch will shut it off when it gets to the pressure anyway. We will see what happens.
TGed...its 11in. Fatter end is 13in but that clears the fender wall and the craddle. The 4t60-e I had is 10 1/2. So you can figurer out how big it is back there.
Thank you TurboGTU. Going out to measure it in a few. Hope it clears.
Edit: Roughly it looks like it will fit.
PS: What vehicle line up has the 4T80 NON E? I searched the interwebz with poor results. 1992 Cad Alante'?
Quote from: TGed on May 15, 2009, 11:50:47 AM
Thank you TurboGTU. Going out to measure it in a few. Hope it clears.
Edit: Roughly it looks like it will fit.
PS: What vehicle line up has the 4T80 NON E? I searched the interwebz with poor results. 1992 Cad Alante'?
If you find an Allante in the j-y, I NEED a pair of door mirrors.
Sorry its the E. 4t80-e. Just going to use some swiches to shift gears. The force motor selinod i might leave alone running high pressure till I get a circut worked for it or use the 4L80-e controller from some chevy trucks. Don't know the years.
Quote from: Serge A. Storms on May 15, 2009, 01:48:43 PM
If you find an Allante in the j-y, I NEED a pair of door mirrors.
haha I'll keep ya in mind, but those cars are rare up here.
Quote from: TurboGTU on May 15, 2009, 02:25:53 PM
Sorry its the E. 4t80-e. Just going to use some swiches to shift gears. The force motor selinod i might leave alone running high pressure till I get a circut worked for it or use the 4L80-e controller from some chevy trucks. Don't know the years.
Is it cheaply possible to have a manual valve body? Can the 80-e handle high pressures for a longevity of time?
I just rememberd about a vacume modulator beeing used on the 4l80-e conversions. Maybe I could use that for this trans. But right now I just wanto get that SOB in there. U could use micro switches on the shifter to go 1st 2nd and so on. But Im going to just use two swiches and switch them off and on.
Not much of a update. Trying to get my welder back from a family member and got busy at work. Got the trans alighed and getting some metal to weld on the frame. Working on the mounts.
Went ahead and bought another welder. A cheap Harbor Fright arc welder. The 120amp i think. Was like 80 bucks. I hated the flux welder. Anyway, working on getting a 220v line so excuse the cheap low heat 110 welding...lol. Dam 15amp extention cords! So here is some more pics. Got it set so now its ready for install into the TGP.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/Photo_062209_008.jpg)
rear mounting
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/Photo_062209_010.jpg)
anti rock mount. Doen't hold it up..just keeps it from rocking.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/Photo_062209_011.jpg)
Rack clears the fat trans. Just grinded on the trans where on the aurora had a mounting boss.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/Photo_062209_007.jpg)
Cradle to diff.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/2.jpg)
Diff to engine mount
They look like weak welds but I heated them with a torch before welding to penetrate better. Just the arc wan't steady. Kept fusing thanks to the extention cord.
Make sure you tap those welds with a hammer atleast, HF stick welders suck.
:icon_lol: Trust me..I did. Brushed off all the flux after every pass. It does the job :icon_rolleyes:
I'm sorry but it looks like a bird crapped on your welds.......
:laugh:
Just a small update. I took apart the 4t80e to make double sure there was nothing wrong with the trans. Turns out one of the shift solenoids was broken. Its a common problem. A force motor solenoid filter pushes on the shift solenoid and breaks it. There's an update pack with two solenoids and a bracket and a bolt for 80-120 bones. Think I will just buy one solenoid (around $20) and make my own bracket. Clutches seem fine. I'll inspect the 3rd clutch pack bushing tomorrow since they say that leaks.
Then its going back in the cradle for more reinforcement. Wasn't to happy with just two mounting points for the trans.
I just bought a Equinox 3400 upper intake since the stock 3x00 intake and stock tgp setup won't work with my turbo setup. Will be using a ford 7.3l powerstroke turbo. Has dual scroll turbine and uses v clams so thats a plus.Using the stock TGP exhaust manifolds for now since headers will be fighting for room with the 3 to 4in down pipe I plan to use. The 3400 exhaust manifods are a joke compared to the old school tgp manifolds. Can't ge my hands on the 3500 front manifolds. WOuld be ideal.
Still kicking around the idea for the ABS tone rings for the front hubs. Maybe go with the late model gm internal hub sensor spindels .
Pic of the intake. Will be facing the ps pump. Stock intake won't clear the ps pump.
(http://60degreev6.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4419&d=1271820048)
Pic isn't working for me.
Quote from: TGP Nick on May 01, 2010, 04:32:22 PM
Pic isn't working for me.
Me either. It was linked from 60*V6 so you'd have to copy/paste the link and login over there to view.
http://60degreev6.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4419&d=1271820048
I saved it and uploaded it as an attachment here so everyone can view it.
Forgot it does that. Thanks :icon_cool:
Guy on a-body.net put in a 4T80 behind his 400 horse Turbo 3.8 in his 84 Buick Century, had to modify it alittle, but he had a big thread about it over there if you looked around, he might have a few tips on it
QuoteFirst disassemble the caddy axles. Take the shaft to your machinist buddy and have him move the snap ring grooves as close to the center as the splines will allow. About 3/8 inch. Do this to both ends, all four snap ring grooves. Then cut off that much from the ends. This shortens the axles 3/4 inch. Next disassemble the outer joints, removing the balls and cage, save the center portion the part that fits the axle. Next disassemble Fiero manual transmission axle outer joints. Auto axles will not work, they are too small. Save the outer part with the axle stub that goes through the bearings and drives the wheels. Now put the part you saved from the Deville outer in the Fiero outer, using the balls and cage from the Fiero outer. Now you have an outer joint that fits your Fiero and fits on the Deville shaft. Now reassemble complete shaft. You should end up with a shaft that is 3/4 inch shorter with caddy tripod on inside and fiero c/v on the outside.
Think i might try this...maybe I missed something using the tgp outer joints.
Prospeeder is that pontiacjeff?
Nope didn't miss something. Took them both apart and the Aurora outer cv guts are smaller than the TGP outer guts. Tried using the Aurora part that has the lock on it into the sphere and balls and outer shaft from the TGP, didn't work. Going to look at Caddilac outer cvs and look at other cars CVs to see which works on the tgp outer.
ahh you know what, sorry but i looked back, he used a 4T65E
Intake arrived yesterday. :icon_mrgreen: Just what I needed. Uses a larger throttle body much like the 3500. Its a drive by wire setup, but I will be using a ford TB or fab up the Ls1 throttle to work.
Before......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/img154.jpg)
After........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/TurboGTU/img153.jpg)
Why is that manifold reversed?
On the Equinox its intake is on the passenger side. So it had to clear where the PS pump would be. Of course I didn't see a PS pump on Equinoxs I've seen. And my setup will need to face the intake the same way.
I went to the junk yard agan and messed with some Caddy axles. No dice. Next step is to use 97+ Grand prix strut and knuckle assymbly.
Trying to put this in the front burner, It's been sitting to dam long. Only things holding back the swap is the CV axles. Other then that time and a cent or two. Going to talk to a CV axle shop about frankengoating these. Pulling the LG5 out of the Beretta and working on some head work. Going to the local yard to see if a PMIII is still there(some ass munch removed the lid let rain in) and remove some parts from it.
Keep us posted!
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m280/merc892003/P2100022.jpg) 1990 Seville cv axle outer looks like it might work. The axles I was looking at the J-yard were of the N*/4t80e variety. Never though of these. Will looking into thise.
As much as I like to finish this project, life happens. I've been the only tech at the truck shop. Moneys good but haven't had time to really work on the tgp. Custom work cost money.
Anyway, Found this site rockfordcv.com (http://rockfordcv.com) it gives the brake down of part numbers for our cv axles cage, ball bearings and outboard inner race. But the most important part for me is the ball bearing and cage numbers. I'll measure the distance between the outboard inner race from the aurora axle (star thing that rides on the shaft) and the outboard joint from the TGP (part that goes into the wheel hub) to come up with a ball bearing size required and that size will give me the cage required and off to tear some other cv axles for their balls and cage at the J-yard.
Another thing I found out is that the Torque converter I got from the Aurora is a Non-viscous. 441 sticker on converter. The other fail prone viscous are the 440 labeled ones. That's something less to worry about.
Think I just hit jackpot. I will replace the inner race from the outbard. THe race from the TGP has 32 spine hole. The olds 4t80 shaft has 34 spines. Looking at 79-84 toronado, riviera, eldorado seville, 90-99 lumina, 90-99 apv lunmina, 82-96 chevy truck, 91-98 Dakota saginaw desighn, 82-96 s10/ blazer and GMC sonoma, bravada, Jimmy. This will retain the TGP outboard joint , cage and balls.
My thought of getting bigger cage and balls won't work since the race and joint have to have the groves for those balls and cage has to fight tight in the joint.
Well I'll see if I can get some time during lunch and do a quick look see.
I'm guessing on the luminas it's the 3800 variety. SO maybe 98-99.
Edit due to having wrong cars. These are right.
Got the cage, balls , race from a 96 4x4 s10 blazer. They fit perfect in the TGP joint and 4t80 shaft. The TGP and s10 both have .750 diameter balls. Other w-cars I saw had smaller size but were the 3.1, 3100 type. Now on with the build.
Any progress on the build?
I've been away from the TGP for months. So much so that the garage sprung a leak and ruined my 4t80 the non-viscous converter is safe though. The original tgp engine that I loaned to the Beretta is all rusted too. Had pulled the heads and walked away for over a year. Needless to say, I'm shopping for another 4t80, I'm also planning a 3900 with LS1 forged pistons and 6in rods using either the TGP crank and have it Cryo-treated or use the 3900 crank and have that cryod but use an external trigger. I have two VGT turbos ready for a twin setup that flow enough for my goals. They each powered a 2007+ 5.2l isuzu NPR.
I'm planning this out as my new daily grind vehicle as the grand am I'm driving is neering 230K miles on the original drivetrain minus heads. I know it will still kick up to or past 300K miles but give me an excuse to spend my money on the TGP rather than a new/used boring car.
Wow sorry to hear that but glad to hear you may go on with the project. I am just starting to get back to dealing with these cars myself. I tucked them away in my building and went on to different things for a while but my resolution this year was to get back into the game and at least make progress.