On the way back from Chicago today, I was about 3 hours into the drive when the car started shaking. It would only shake when throttle was applied. Then I noticed the A/F gauge going nuts. It was then I figured out that I had lost spark to a cylinder. I pulled off at a rest stop and popped the hood looking for anything obvious. I didn't notice anything, I let the car cool for 10 minutes and got back on the road. It was running on all 6 again, but only for about 2 minutes. I drove another half hour until I got to Champaign and i pulled off into a gas station. I added some water to the reservoir and topped it off with gas. Got back on the road and went about 10 minutes until I lost that cylinder again. By the time I got home, the back of the engine was ticking... kinda like a lifter tick or piston slap.
This has never happened to me before and I wonder what would make the car loose spark after a long drive. The engine wasn't overheating and probably never got over 190*. I have a gut feeling that it was a heat related problem though.
you might of cooked a coil pack or the module it happened to my 89 a few years ago.
God I hope not... The whole ignition system on this car is only 9 months old! All new stuff
Quote from: Jonpro03 on August 07, 2010, 07:28:33 PM
On the way back from Chicago today, I was about 3 hours into the drive when the car started shaking. It would only shake when throttle was applied. Then I noticed the A/F gauge going nuts. It was then I figured out that I had lost spark to a cylinder. I pulled off at a rest stop and popped the hood looking for anything obvious. I didn't notice anything, I let the car cool for 10 minutes and got back on the road. It was running on all 6 again, but only for about 2 minutes. I drove another half hour until I got to Champaign and i pulled off into a gas station. I added some water to the reservoir and topped it off with gas. Got back on the road and went about 10 minutes until I lost that cylinder again. By the time I got home, the back of the engine was ticking... kinda like a lifter tick or piston slap.
This has never happened to me before and I wonder what would make the car loose spark after a long drive. The engine wasn't overheating and probably never got over 190*. I have a gut feeling that it was a heat related problem though.
not sure but i was thinking one of the back plug wires might be loose, that happened to me before there is one that's hard to slap on.. sometimes the easiest thing to check could be the right thing grr i found out the hard way,,ha
Did you actually check for spark or did you assume you were losing spark on one cylinder?
Assumed. The next time I have the symptom I'll start messing around with it. When it fired this morning it ran perfectly.
One thing I have done on all my TGP / TSTEs is when I replace the ICM I put heat reflective tape on the back side of the ICM to try and prolong the life of it.
The engine has gotten progressively worse. Now it ticks all of the time and after 5 minutes of driving it will start to backfire through the intake. This leads me to believe there is a stuck valve or bent pushrod or something like that. The TGP will be taken off the road today.
It will get the LP3100 from my 96.
Ouch man good luck on that job.
i had a lifter collapse that ticked pretty loud... also are you sure its not spark knock? what kinda wires u using?
7mm somethin or others. Whatever was cheapest at AZ
thought id tell you if your missing on one cylinder badly for a long drive it will severly dilute the oil with gas and make the lifters very pissed off, lol. have you changed the oil? As far as the miss, injectors fail hot usually. and if it gets stuck open it will cause some very interesting issues. my 6000 had a lifter noise, and when i took it apart one lifter was in pieces, and it didnt even miss, so my doubts are to a bad lifter. I would say if ur curious pull the front valve cover and see whats up. What brand plugs are you running? curious...
NGK iridium tip
hmmm those sound just fine. Replaced anything yet? Ohmed out your injectors? Pull them out of the intake, but still attatched to the rail, and turn the key to on, and pressureize the system, and see if one leaks badly or anything, or is stuck open, lol.
Well, I was just going to swap in the LG8 out of my 96... but I sold it. So now I'm either looking for an engine for it, or going to fix the 3.1.
I can buy a 3500 from a 2005 malibu with 103k miles for $150 at a j/y. However, that motor will take a lot of work to get it to work in the TGP.
Or
I can spend a lot less money and fix the TGPs 3.1
Now there's an obvious power advantage if I choose to get the 3500. N/A it's got 220lb/ft torque and 200 hp. If I turbo it it would be a monster. I would also have to get a new turbo because the t25 cant flow a 3500. If I rebuild the 3.1 I can have the car done in half the time and spend half the money on it.
Opinions?
Well, look at the list of engines and tell me which one you would buy...
Nevermind! Too late!
I already bought the $200 dollar one. I'll be picking it up on monday!
WOOT! :icon_cool:
hard to argue with cheap, reliable power that shines even more under boost. :icon_biggrin:
(http://i.imgur.com/bI6Kw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JeUF9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e6Ilg.jpg)
Going to have the engine out of the car by tomorrow. The new engine will be here tomorrow so I can get to work
Nice pickup! better start shavin that engine bay!
(http://i.imgur.com/L7zuO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/byVGM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zpTrz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/L5gRr.jpg)
Tonight's progress:
All of the parts removed from the old 3.1. There are a handful of items that won't transfer over to the 3500 because of differences in the block.
The lower engine mount won't transfer - we will get one off of a gen2 3x00
Passenger dogbone mount won't transfer - we will get one off of a gen2 3x00
A/C compressor won't transfer due to pass. dogbone mount - gen2 3x00
Turbo oil feed line is a different size - will be heading to the hardware store
ICM and coilpack won't transfer - gen2 3x00 with wiring harness
Turbo oil return line won't work - will drill/tap oilpan
Wont fit due to the car:
3.1 water pump will not be used - get heater core lines from 94-96 grand prix
3500 UIM won't be used - Using a 3400 UIM from u-body van to retain egr
3500 fuel rail won't be used - 3400 fuel rail
3500 throttle body won't be used - get 56mm TB from 3400
Throttle body cable mount will be 3100 custom for kickdown cable
Stuff that did transfer (so far)
Oil pressure adapter and Oil cooler
160* tstat
Coolant feed fitting
Driver side dogbone mount
Turbo exhaust manifolds (minus bolts... TOO RUSTY!) Im using both 3.1 and 3500 gaskets.
Alternator mount bracket / alternator
We are off to the junkyard tomorrow as I have a hefty list of things to get. That gen2 3x00 engine mount is going to be the worst. :p
Sorry I didn't snap any pictures. I basically have two empty motors right now and a slew of parts all over the floor.
I got very... VERY lucky today. Earlier last year, I helped a buddy build a megasquirt2 for his camaro. He's going to sell the car now and I GET THE MEGASQUIRT!
YAY ME!
Now I don't have to buy a external crank trigger saving me $150. AAAANNNNDDD I now have unlimited tuning capabilities.
You will find that the 3500 mounts will be different than the 31/34 hundred mounts. You will need to fabricate some stuff to make do. The TB situation will be not resolved with just a TB swap, cables will be an issue. You will need other GM parts to complete that task. The coolant sensors will need to be addressed. The lx9 uses a crush sealing washer with a different smaller thread design. The lower intake doesn't have provisions for the other sensor. The power steering pump will not work with the setup you have going in. Will again, need to source another GM vehicle for that.
The rear tgp manifold bolts may not work well due to it being to long, I suggest just picking up studs and nuts with locking washers.
I highly suggest going with different larger ex.manny's, those stock ones even extremely ported will be restrictive and then be prone to cracking due to the extreme porting.
I have a 3400 Van UIM AND a 3400 Grandam LIM here... I am willing to part with it if you are interested. Shoot me an offer, I am located in MI.
the coolant sensors shouldn't be an issue, GM went from 2 sensors, one 2 wire, one 1 wire to the single 3-wire setup. luckily, the 3 wire is more or less a 2 wire sensor with the "sender" capability being the third wire. so, just chop off a connector and solder/crimp on the old ones.
Quote from: TGed on August 27, 2010, 08:50:35 PM
You will find that the 3500 mounts will be different than the 31/34 hundred mounts. You will need to fabricate some stuff to make do. The TB situation will be not resolved with just a TB swap, cables will be an issue. You will need other GM parts to complete that task. The coolant sensors will need to be addressed. The lx9 uses a crush sealing washer with a different smaller thread design. The lower intake doesn't have provisions for the other sensor. The power steering pump will not work with the setup you have going in. Will again, need to source another GM vehicle for that.
The rear tgp manifold bolts may not work well due to it being to long, I suggest just picking up studs and nuts with locking washers.
I highly suggest going with different larger ex.manny's, those stock ones even extremely ported will be restrictive and then be prone to cracking due to the extreme porting.
I have a 3400 Van UIM AND a 3400 Grandam LIM here... I am willing to part with it if you are interested. Shoot me an offer, I am located in MI.
Are you SURE that the power steering pump wont work. Everybody says that it won't bolt up. But it looks to me like it will. Is there another that will?
I won't be using tgp manifolds... too small. I'm going to use 3400 manifolds and block the DP, weld a T4 flange on the crossover and fab up a downpipe. At least, that's the plan for now... If I don't like it I'll just build an exhuast.
I've already bought a LP3100 UIM and fuel rail from a 2000 malibu, a 56mm TB from a Montana, a TB cable bracket from a 94 grand prix complete with kickdown cable mount :icon_razz: and ICM mount bracket. wot-tech sells a CTS adapter.
I'm going back tomorrow for 3400 exhaust, 94 gp heater lines, passenger side dogbone mount, motor mount, and a/c compressor.
As for the motor mount, that's something I hadn't counted on and I'm working on it. I'm going :icon_sad:
I cant think of anything else right now...
i believe you will want PRE- 3400 exhaust manifolds, the flow cant be reversed on late model 3100/3400, you need small port exhaust manis
Tip- Use 2 front lx9 ex.manifolds.
Quote from: TGed on August 28, 2010, 11:01:14 PM
Tip- Use 2 front lx9 ex.manifolds.
IIRC, those are the best flowing(and looking :icon_biggrin:) manifolds you can get ahold of before going to the Gen4 660s.
They are, but some fabrication with a BFH is possibly required.... I just said screw it and made my own somewhat equal length headers. I think 3" on each header for the port closest to the driver side is the longest due to the way I had to turn/flow it.
I finished the wiring harness diagram for the megasquirt swap, this setup is using GMDIS with an external trigger:
Megasquirt = signal = TGP engine harness
20 tan/yellow = intake temp = C22 LT GRN
21 purple = coolant temp = C16 YEL
22 blue = tps signal = C15 DK BLUE
23 lght blue = 02 = A16
24 green = CPS = D13 PPL/WHT
25 gray = iac1 = A1 LT BLU/WHT
26 gray/red stripe = 5v ref = C12 GRY
27 white/blue strp = iac2 = A7 LT BLU/BLK
28 red/white stipe = 12v = D17/C7 ORN
29 green/red str = iac3 = A8 LT GRN/WHT
31 orange/black = iac4 = A2 LT GRN/BLK
32 gray/yellow = bank1 inj\ = D9 LT BLU (2 4 6)
33 gray/yellow = bank1 inj/
34 pink/black = bank2 inj\ = D3 LT GRN (1 3 5)
35 pink/black = bank2 inj/
36 yellow/black = ICM = C9 TAN/BLK
37 orange/white = fuelpump = D7 GRN/WHT
9 SENOR GOUND = C6 BLK/WHT
10 = C5 BLK
11 = C10 BLK
12 = D4 BLK/WHT
I found this documentation to controll the TCC with Megasquirt2 using the fast idle output to trip the solenoid.
For example, if you wanted to use the FIdle output as a TCC control, and the accel LED as an indicator that the TCC is active, you would set:
* FIdle (PM2):
o Port PM2, enabled
o variable = map < threshold = 75, hysteresis = 10,
o AND
o variable = coolant > threshold = 160, hysteresis = 10,
o Power-on value = 0
o Trigger value = 0
* Accel LED (PM4):
o Port PM4, enabled
o variable = map < threshold = 75, hysteresis = 10,
o AND
o variable = coolant > threshold = 160, hysteresis = 10,
o Power-on value = 0
o Trigger value = 1
Example: Torque Converter Clutch Control
Suppose you want to engage OD (overdrive) over 50 kPa MAP, and engage the LU (torque converter lock-up) clutch at 75 kPa MAP, provided temp is over 140 and RPM is over 2000. For a torque converter clutch control (TCC) using FIdle with 3 conditions (rpm > 1500, CLT > 160, map < 75), set:
PA0 - Knk Enable:
* rpm > 1500
* coolant > 160
and
PM2 - FIdle:
* map < 75
* port0 > 63
Then use the FIdle output to drive the TCC relay (if you have a relay board, you are all set). Not that you also need a 3/4 gear indicator switch and a brake switch in the external circuit:
EDIT: megamanual won't let me copy the image of the TTC Control Circuit so here's the link to the webpage, the image is about 3/4 the way down the page. http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/spare.htm
Is the brake switch already present on the harness or is that controlled by the TGP ecm?
If so, it's as simple as:
30 green/orange = TCC = B7 TAN/BLK
The Megasquirt found a new home.
(http://imgur.com/FBqeRl.jpg)
Where'd it go?
(http://imgur.com/HCBf9l.jpg)
That's the intercooler
(http://imgur.com/gySqVl.jpg)
The whole radiator assembly was moved 8 inches to the driver side so I could run the boost tubes.
(http://imgur.com/JlsGKl.jpg)
The trans cooler made it's way in front of the intercooler but it hasn't found a home yet. The oil pan was drilled/tapped and I bought the correct adapter and ran a steel braid line for oil feed.
(http://imgur.com/202OTl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/202OT.jpg)
BAM!
Ya, that's a 3500 sitting in a TGP. Big woop, wana fight about it?
that is soo not a 3500..... :laugh: haha just kiddin Jon its lookin good, how did all the wiring go?
Damn near killed me :laugh:
But I know every single wire under the hood of that car now!
See and you didn't even have to pay UTI a bunch of cash to do it.
(http://imgur.com/qKwQol.jpg)
It breathes its first breath of life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkya5xFZmZw