I have a chance to get a free set of aluminum heads off of a '94 3100. Are these still the same heads that are used on the TGPs or are they the revised design with the D-shaped exhaust ports??
if they are the stock heads off of a 94 3100, then they are Gen III heads with the D shaped ports.
http://discussions.gmforums.com/showthread.php?s=0100b3d45966e87fcc5eaae4723e4592&threadid=4086&highlight=gen+III+head+swap
According to this thread on 60degreev6.com the GenII intake manifold won't bolt up to the GenIII heads without some welding. I have to see how different they are as I have an extra 3.1 upper/lower intake around here somewhere. More bad news is that the heads are gonna be free now :evil:, but $20 :P . I could have gotton the intake really cheap too, but my friend sold it on ebay for $60.
Hey Jeff M, if you are reading this how did you get the genII intake to work with the genIII heads???
LIke you already said, lots of welding. There are a couple of ways of doing it, but the Gen II intake has to be built up and ported to match the newer heads. 'Bout the only way.
Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to swap over the 3100 intake manifolds too?
Wow wait a sec did he say free head :bad-words:
oh crap he said free heads!!!! gotcha!! :rofl:
Just a small mention on this topic. I do have the Gen III heads, some what for testing but also an opportunity that came to me when I met the guys that designed these heads and the Gen I, Gen II, 3.4, 3400 as well as intakes and exhaust and other engines such as the TGP Pace Car, GTO Grand Am and more. These guys have the clay molds and if I knew that going there, would of taken a camera (they are in MI and I am now in MN ;-(. They did the work to my Gen III heads, and helped in setting me up to do the Gen IIs so they could flow within a few cfm on the turbo-critical exhaust side as the heralded Gen IIIs. They also raised/welded the intake ports on my lower intake to match the higher intake ports on the Gen III heads. This higher intake port is nothing new, GM has had heads as has others that have intake ports at 23 degree and up to 18 degrees, damn near straight down onto the intake valve, but at a point you have a hard time keeping a good swirl and move towards a tumble head. The 23 and 18 degree heads from GM are those BowTie race heads, their best, and the idea was just taken over to the Gen IIIs, and the old idea of a ?D? shaped exhaust port, only thing left is to stretch the length/height of the head?s intake runner to have the last latest in port design thinking. Both the Gen II and Gen III are designed with swirl, 4 valves give tumble, each to homogenize the air fuel mix for a nice controlled burn, allowing higher compression rations and higher efficiencies. I am getting close to have time to release the heads I have worked on with this shop and a really good local shop to do the flow work and other design upgrades, here is the link and you will note there is no link to it from inside my site so its kind of a pre-release page. As for swapping the intakes to match the Gen IIIs, that is some work with all the cables, vacuum lines, EGR, throttle body clearing, new intake pipe, it can be done, but I wanted to make it easier for people to achieve great flowing heads with the least amount of work and money spent, so is why I invested so much time and money into these UltraFlow Gen II heads I will have. Now I know some guys that got even more flow from the Gen IIs heads, its all how much you want to spend, and they spent some big coin, but that would be for a very small amount of TGP owners, and to do another custom chip for that small of demand is, well crazy! That reminds me, I just saw an add from SuperChips, they offer chips for $150 (not for the TGP) and custom chips an additional $187 that makes it $337, nice to see my chips are still less, but in actuality my eprom is $190, its the extra $85 for a new MEMCAL that gets the price to $275, and I have had a number of owners glad they had my chip this way, so when they sold their car, could keep it for another TGP or for a friend, or for those that think a chip goes bad (never heard of that one yet), still have their stock one to swap back in. Last note and got to go, I had 3 TGP owners send me their Custom SuperChips for their TGP, they wanted me to add the things SuperChips did not have/could not figure out, such as boost control, fan on temps for colder thermostat, and a bunch of other things that made me wonder why the chip cost anything!! And 2 of them had to send their chips back for fixes as things were not working out, the last owner just drove his TGP to SuperChips and had them dyno-tune the chip, that one was dead scary, at boost above 9 psi they had added 10 degrees to the timing :shocked!: . That is nuts, the stock timing at just 9 to 10 psi is enough to get you 10 to 12 degrees of knock retard, glad that guy came to me as soon as he did, and no I never wanted to use or copy someone else?s chip/SuperChips, even if I did not think much of them, its respect and I stay feeling clean at the end of each day being that way.
Enough!!
Jeff M
http://www.turbograndprix.com/new_page_2.htm
I got the heads, but I don't really plan on using them at this time. Your ultraflow Gen II heads seem pretty badass and I'll probably be getting a set of them when they come out. Matching the intake ports from manifold to head doesn't sound that bad and my uncle is a welder so that's wasn't the problem. At this time I just don't want to muck around in stuff like that, and I decided that my time is better spent elsewhere 8)
The flow charts on your site are very impressive and I can't wait to see the kind of gains made from the heads :)
the numbers definately speak for themselves, unfortunately i don't know what the .01" means, anybody know.
Thanks Skalor, you sure got that right, part of my head kits will be details on port matching, done enough now here to see its very common for the ports to need work matching up, stock heads or ported heads, also in the kit will be ARP studs and some other items to round out things proper. Now I know guys who have invested a lot more money for bigger numbers but those bigger numbers end up being more on the end when the valve is at larger openings, and also matches the bigger lift cams they run, but there is a loss to the flow numbers/air velocity at low valve lift numbers, and if one thinks about it, the valve spends more timing opening and closing/low lifter numbers then just being wide open/high lift numbers. Yes one could skip the low numbers and go wild on big flow and big cam and, that is the ultimate on the high end of doing things but that would require an engine running a higher rpm band/higher fuel cut/balanced motor/shorter intake-runners/heavier valve springs/lighter valve train components (titanium retainers), much bigger turbo and a tranny that does not mind being shifted at and handling the tremendous inertia at those higher rpms. We have long runners and a low rpm torque happy motor, that just needs a turbo to take it from there into the higher rpms, nothing radical, my Typhoon motor runs/dyno?d 650 hp, but 759 lb ft of torque at 3,200 rpms, and shifts at 5,500 rpms and has a big power band with these low rpms, stock SyTy motors shift at 4,800 rpms but even these motors runs some amazing times. It is torque that gets us going so well and the 3.1 is a great start that can be made to run really strong without major work/swapping intakes/heads/big cams to piss off the computer, etc.
BP, if you look at the bottom of the graph is gives you the legend for those inches, those values are the amount of valve lift in tenths of an inch (i.e. 0.1? = one tenth of an inch, 0.2? is 2 tenths of an inch the valve is lifted off the valve seat in the head), just like the lift the cam makes happen to the valves in the heads when inhaling or exhaling. That way the graph shows values that coincide with those same lift conditions while running on an engine.
Jeff M