Since I heard about Jud and poked around a little on here, I noticed PMIII converstion talk.

All this engineering isn't neccesary. No welding to do the job, no dash removal. You need to change the pedal out. Remove the brake booster, and using a sawzall cut out around the outside of the bolts protruding through the firewall. Then unbolt and remove the plate portion with the seal and retainer. You can trim it up to just around the nuts. While you are in the JY, find a 93 up F-body and grab the master cylinder. Doesn't matter abs or not. Then you need to use a sawzall or jigsaw to cut a large hole in the existing TGP firewall that will fit the booster seal you removed from the donor. Bolt in the plate you cut out with the seal, install the booster and master cylinder. You will need to fab up some brake lines to go from the 2 port F-body MC to the 3 brake lines. Works great. A kit could be made if you wanted, you could fab up the lines and include a booster, MC and a nicely finished plate along with a template to cut the exisiting firewall. Any Q's don't ever hesitate to shoot me an email.

Hi All,

Heard about Jud.  :icon_eek:

What an amazing loss to the automotive world.

Chris

Hey Guys,

How've ya'll been?

I am letting my domain registration for TPSGarage.com expire. I won't be renewing the domain, I just don't have time to do anything with it and my email addy there has gotten so spammed lately I'm just going to use my ISP email. aldridgec@verizon.net if anyone needs anything. If someone would like to host it I can send you the files.

Chris A

Don't ask, long story. Shows dash and a lot else removed. Took me and a few helpers 4 hours to get to the bottom picture.

I guess since this is GN/T-Type (Turbo regal or TR) and TTA related I'll offer my bi-yearly comment.

TTA's are rare, 1500 numbered ever. They were tested to be the fastest STOCK production Trans Am. Even to the LS1. I recall the show that did the race with 3 stock TA's

The Turbo 3.8 LC2 is easily modified to produce way more power than stock. If stock is the mid to high 13's, in any of the 3.8L Turbo cars, very little money can get you reliably into the 11's. Nobody really concerns themselves with stock ratings. I have much more on my 02 TA and am only down to 13's (but it is lconvertible, lowered with short hard tires so I don't get much traction). Problem with the TTA is, well, it's rare.  So  are the upgrade parts that are specific to it (intercoolers etc.)  Underhood room is more limited than the G-Body cars. The GOOD TRs were produced in some quantity for two years, 1986 and 87 and are very popular 1/4 cars. So there are several vendors who offer parts and upgrades for them. Even with extensive suspension mods I wouldn't recommend them for anything else. The chassis is way too flexy.  Drag only car though? No more than the 125 hp 17 second normally aspirated base 3.8 regal. Just ends up that way because of what the car is. W-bodys and F-bodys were designed to be sporty and handle "well". The GNX tried to fix that with the redesigned rear that helped to plant the tires during acceleration from corners etc.


All TR/TTAs are Mass Air Metered. They Do NOT have closed loop boost control which makes the computer issues different from the LG5 which has closed loop boost control (read, the ECM knows the boost level). While it is directly not neccesary for the LC2 to know since it measures the air flow, it can run into problems as the octance level can't keep up with the knock tendancy at higher boost levels.  I've rarely seen a melted pistons, usually the head gasket fails. I've seen some stock unopened engines run upwards of 25lbs of boost with few problems with 400 or more HP to the wheels and careful tuning.

Finally, lets face it guys. The TGP is cheap. With few exceptions, most are in poor shape. Very few people know they are rare, or care really. I didn't. Oddly it seems 88 fieros are more desireable. THey are neat fun cars with cool gadgetry and decent looks. That is why I bought my original one (see message board banner). It was sitting on a car lot and I had no idea what it was, except a myth. It would have been a really nice car if other things hadn't gotten in the way. There are a lot of beater TRs out there too, they'll still spank your ass though. Sometimes the uglier they are the faster they are. In my opinion, other than being numbered the TTA and the TGP could be in the same desireability category. Rare, not always well known, with signifigant historical aspects (indy and daytona pace cars in 89), but there are people who will drive both everyday as if it were a honda civic and treat it like it was worse to the point some just aren't worth restoring. I know guys who have parted out super rare GNXs... go figure.

Right! Which is what I don't get. Once the job started and more serious damage was found, the options were presented and a choice was made. If the work was done, and at time of payment the price increased and no additional services had been agreed to and rendered, that would be a legal case.

Ok, so we were taking a tgp and putting the drivetrain into the SE.

Here is my opinion based on the reading, having been on both sides in the business and the anal consumer.

Sounds like he gave it a fair estimate. Turbo seemed to operate properly and compression was good on the motor. Tranny was obviously broken, so what was there to diagnose? Not much physcially can be done with it in the car.

Sounds like he gave you a fair estimate and diagnosis. Maybe he missed the shaft play on the turbo? Ok, so he tells you and gives you the choice. It wasn't originally included in the estimate, you had the choice to reuse the old one or take the professional recommendation and rebuild it. What if he had told you originally it was bad and it would be an extra $550 for a rebuilt one?

Same goes for the transmission. He opened it up to find a possible bad rebuild from before, so it would cost extra money. He could have priced this job out of reach. Rebuilt turbo and engine, new transmission just in case that one is grenaded and doesn't just need a basic rebulid, remove two drivetrains and reinstall one. $6000.

Quote from: Gearhead43

I was at the shop a few times during the swap, The TGP's engine harness was torn by the assc belt from a seized A/C Compressor. So EP has to resolder some of the wires back together. While I was inspecting the wiring (Which was only crimped together, not soldered)  two of the wires come out of the crimp connecters. (Mind you, this is an engine harness!!!)

Was it specified to have it crimped or soldered? There are different views of what is neccesary for a quality repair in the industry and arguments againts soldering believe it or not. Obviously though it should be a solid repair

Quote

After a bottom line of $3450, EP finally get the swap together 3 months later. They stated the engine was running rough. Traced it to bad plugs.. Now I'm thinking after a swap like this, you would think one of the FIRST items to be replaced would be the PLUGS!!! But no.... Jeff tried leaving the OLD ones in.. When they had to replace the plugs, they CHARGED ME $75 bucks for 6 PLUGS!! ON top of the 3450 for the swap!!!

Was the charge for plug price, or plugs and installation? Were plugs specified to be changed in the original estimate?

Quote

Found out that EP:

- Scratched my newly painted F-Brace (Refused to pay for)
- Wedged the Flex-a-lite Tranny Cooler between the bumper and the bra. So I could not get the bra off the clean the car.
- Left the AC line off the compressor (Says he forgot to TELL me about it)
- Only changed upper and lower Radiator Hose. All other OEM hoses where left Org. OEM parts. For those of you who know the TGP, ou know all the rubber hose crap connecting the various plumbing in the engine.
- Told me he was going to add the ST Springs since it was going to be easier while doing the swap. Didn't install them. He kpt complaining that he was doing all this extra work.. Wen if facyt he didnt do half of what he was required.

These items certainly do seem to be fair complaints.

Quote

Turbo saga <snip>
I'm thinking , OK, It needs to be rebuilt AGAIN.. FOR FREE it better be!!!!!

Why SHOULD it be free. Something outside of the materials and workmanship on the turbo damaged it.

Quote
He will rebuild the turbo at no cost to you, but the new center section will cost you 325.00..."[/b] DUHHHHHH ...That's not free ANYMORE DUMBASS!!! What the hell happened to such a THING CALLED a WARRANTY!!!!!!

Never said free did he. But he would supply the labor and other parts to rebuild it and only charge you for the part that was damaged by an outside circumstance. Sounds fair to me. More than most turbo builders would do.

Quote
Well EP performed a compression check on this engine before starting the work on it.... 170-175 PSI Compression was verified by EP...

With 140k, a compression check can't see inside the motor or check the condition of the many various parts of the engine, especially built up crud.

All in all, I don't really see what the major complaint is to call this guy a complete crook. His level of work might not have been up to your standards, but for the most part sounds like he did what you originally agreed to, and agreed to along the way. He also did what he could to stay in budget, and really close to the original estimate. In all reality, most places I've dealt with are not up to my level of standards either which is why I started doing my own work. But those standards cost money, much more money than you were charged. 3 months time is a little long, but this isn't "Overhaulin'"

You shoulda fixed the valance while you were at it! ;)

Good job, not for everyone, but nice work.

yep, all the makings of a bad actuator.

if you take the actuator off, or disconnect it from the wastegate, you can pull the rod out, and it should have a good bit of resistance. you should then be able to hold the rod by placing your finger over the boost port. if the rod completely retracts, or you can hear air leaking its bad.

whats the symptom anyway?

I guess it all depends on what you are counting. :wink:

Didn't the change in the ribbing start in 94 when it went to 3 ribs? The 93 should be the same as the TGP except for the quad headlamps.

TGP bumper covers are hard to find btw, unique to the turbo car

what's not fitting that you are hoping to fix with a different housing?

#1 http://www.netavalanche.com/tgp/viewtopic.php?t=1346

#2 There is no off the self replacement I was ever able to find for less than $100. Most places needed to match it up. Everyone I know has gotten theirs from another person with a turbo.

#3 no, base pressure too high and probably won't physically fit

The sunbird used different a/r, believe it was .48 on both sides.