Is this the most active subject on the fourm?  TGPs for sale?

Well, mine is too.  Cheap!  Mine has been sitting in the driveway since April of 2004, and I need to get it out of there.  The wife is getting quite upset with me for just letting it sit there.  It hasn't run in a year or so, as I used to start it once in a while.  I can't hear the fuel pump running, so I think that is why it won't start.

I always wanted to take the engine out of it and put it in a Fiero, but it looks more and more like that is not going to ever happen. So with regrets, I will sell it just to get it out of here.  I don't want it going to the JY, as the wife wants.

Some specifics:

1990 TGP white four door.  Always had Mobil 1 10W-30 since I owned it.  (Had about 89k on it when I bought it, has 148k on it now.)  Changed the oil whenever the DIC said it should be.   For some reason the steering wheel area smokes once in a while when you try and start it.  It was my daily driver, so I teated it fairly well when I was driving it.  When I did do some testing with it, I used modified code that pulled timing during shifts to protect the transmission. This was not GM code, but stuff I wrote to protect the trans.  When I tried the GM code, it was like the key was turned off during the shift.

The local JY said they would pay $400 for any car that could be driven in.  So I think it is probably worth the $400.  If there is any interest, just let me know.  BTW, the car is located in the northeastern part of PA. 

Quote from: malibuoldsit's not really turbo specific.  the NA 3.1 MAT sensor is in the airbox.  the TGP does not have the MAT sensor in the airbox because the MAT sensor must be after the intercooler.

I moved the air temp sensor to the output of the intercooler.  Bought a short piece of exhaust pipe the right size, and installed a bung in it for the air temp sensor.  Shortened the intercooler to throttle body pipe, and installed it there.

Don't try to do this with stock code. It won't work right.  If you move the MAT to the intercooler, it will be too heavily weighted to air temp.  You need to blend the ECT and MAT sensor values to get the right air temp density value, and you can't do that with stock TGP code.

Scot

Quote from: TurboGTUSo the 1228708 ecm is the only w-body ecm that has the 2 seperate injector dirvers (90 GP& Cutless..2.3L Vin D, and A). Im wondering how simmilar a 727 and a 708 are?

They look the same from the outside....   But they have slightly different different layout on the inside.  The 727 code in a 708 may start and run, but that is about it.  The fuel and timing layouts are similar, but the I/O is different.

Quote from: TurboGTUWell that settles a little argument. One was that People said that the TGP code doesn't run well on the 730 ecm.  But how come mine does?..But then again..I have the updated 730. I never got to try it on the old 730. Another was belived that the TGP had two seprate banks inside the ecm...and not brided together inside. I guess that solves the mystery.

The TGP code will run as well in a 730 as it will in a 727.  They are laid out the same on the inside.  A 730 is a 730, BTW.  

The TGP code is not the best code GM ever released.  It has too many things that I had to correct to get it to run really good.

Quote from: TurboGTUMy old ecm has the B injector driver(Q2). I think it has to do with the MAFF sensor on the beretta???. I'll check latter today.

If it has a second driver, it probably is not a 730.  The second driver has nothing to do with the MAF.   The MAF is just an input sensor.  The drivers are the ECMs output to the injectors.

Quote from: TurboGTUThanks..you know your way around thise ecms. Worked for GM by any chance?? LOL.

No, never worked for GM.  I have worked for a large defense contractor for almost 25 years making embedded processors.  Started back before there were microprocessors that could do the job.  

Scot

This has a easy answer.

All the W bodies that use the 727/396 ECMs use just one injector driver.  And so do N bodies (or other body styles) that use the 730.  The second driver is not populated in any of those ECMs.

They are wired to look like two banks, but in fact in all the 1227730, 16149396 and 1227727 ECMs,  there is only one injector driver.  So all 6 injectors fire at one time, once per engine revolution.

I personally have never seen a 730 ECM with the second injector location populated.   Even if it is, it is not used in any 730/727 ECM application.

Scot

Quote from: skalor

Quote from: ScotSeaThe MAF is not used to calculate fuel.  If one wants to use a MAF, I would take a look at the 3300 code used in some Olds.  Code ID is DF.  There is probably some EGR differences, but this is a possiblity.

The difference being that the 3300 doesn't have EGR.   :P  :D

The 3300 does not have an EGR valve, but it does have EGR code in the ECM.  That is what I was refering to.  I was just wondering if it was the 3 bit digital, or a PWM style.  It is the PWM style.

BTW, the CodeId is 'D4' not 'DF'.   It does not use an IAT, or the MAP sensor, but it looks like those inputs are not used elswhere, so they could be installed, and used, as long as the code is added to use them.

Scot

Quote from: TookyCatThere was some debate about my claims that the removal of my AC condensor fins in front of my stock intercooler was a total waste of time.  

Nice information.  Thanks for the effort!

I tend to agree with you.  This is probably not a very useful mod.  But it is free....  I added some code to trigger the second fan whenever there is boost.  This way if you are not moving, the fan will come on to slow down the heating of the intercooler.  The intercooler has no excess capacity, so no need to prematurely heat it up.  I have NEVER seen the intercooler output temp go down, once you get into boost.  It always rises.  So if you start with a hot intercooler, you will end with an even hotter intercooler.  This is one reason I don't like an open air filter under the hood.  If you are not moving, the intercooler is heating up from the warm underhood air.

I do not use the manifold location for the air temp sensor anymore, as I feel the air temp density is not as accurate when it is located there.  (The MAP sensor is now hooked where the IAT was.)  The stock TGP code uses the manifold air temp directly to look up the air density term.  It does not use a derived term as some other code does.  So obviously the IA term is very important to determine how much fuel to inject.

I moved the IAT to the output of the intercooler, and set up some code to enable the CylAirTemp to be derived from some added factors.  This CylAirTemp value now comes out in the ALDL stream in the StartUp coolant temp position, so one can monitor the air temp being used to determine air temp density.  Took a while to get the factors right, but the fueling seems to be pretty good over a large range of temps.  

As an aside, I do have a B-body LT1 MAF mounted in my TGP's intake tract.  I use it to compare the SD calculated airflow to the actual airflow.  The MAF airflow data is also used to calculate actual VE.  Both these values come out in the ALDL data stream.  The MAF is not used to calculate fuel.  If one wants to use a MAF, I would take a look at the 3300 code used in some Olds.  Code ID is DF.  There is probably some EGR differences, but this is a possiblity.

About two years ago, the TGP also got a 3 bar MAP sensor.  Probably the only TGP using one with what at least started out as 8F code.  I also changed to one VE table, as I did not like the two VE tables that GM uses.  I think it is kind of clunky to have to add the two VE values together.

Scot

Quote from: no1kickerDoes anyone have the part # for a memcal from GM?  I want to run a custom chip but the factory one is soldered in.  Thanks a bunch.

I can post it here too....


Year    BCC             Scan Id Part Number     Release Date    Fed/Cal

1989    ASAN8785        8671    16138784        02/24/89        CAL

1989    ASMF0645        0301    16140642        02/24/89        FED

1989    ATMJ5199        5181    16145198        08/11/89        CAL

1989    ATMK5205        5191    16145203        07/31/89        FED

1989    AUAD5199        5181    16148530        10/03/89        CAL

1989    AUAF5205        5191    16148531        07/31/89        FED

1989    AZRC2132        0721    16172131        08/16/91        Not Stated



1990    ASAN8785        8671    16138784        02/24/89        CAL

1990    ASMF0645        0301    16140642        02/24/89        FED

1990    ATMJ5199        5181    16145198        08/11/89        CAL

1990    ATMK5205        5191    16145203        07/31/89        FED

1990    AUAD5199        5181    16148530        10/03/89        CAL

1990    AUAF5205        5191    16148531        07/31/89        FED

1990    AUFR0423        0051    16150422        11/16/89        Not stated

1990    AZRC2132        0721    16172131        08/16/91        Not stated

Scot