How much $$$$$ do you have on your TGP?

TGPto_restore · March 24, 2004, 11:42:56 AM

These cars are damn pricey. You think they would be worth as much as a GNX!!!

Anyway, heres my breakdown. How about you?

Bought this one 12/02 for $4300 with 90000 miles. Door panel carpet slightly wavy, no owners manual, air control seats and cruise not working, otherwise a nice condition car.

02/03. Brakes go out. New PMIII and accumulator. $1100 at the dealership, expensive but worked around schedule, ohh a free rental for a week yippidy doo.

02/03. pick up car from dealer. radiator leak. bitch to dealer, blame on them, proven wrong. rusted out. New radiator? Dont remember but over $1000. Took to get re-cored, done for $150 or so.

07/03. New tires, tune up, belt, brakes all at PepBoys. $1200.

im not gonna count body work for hitting tree, this is my fault.

But, upwards of $7200 in this car thats worth maybe what, $3000? I dont even have any friggin mods yet. I dont think my crossover is cracked though, some rare ones arent. I guess this is definitely a hobby. I am hoping these things gain a lot of value in a 10 year timeframe. Any one else think this is going to happen?

dbtk2 · March 24, 2004, 01:33:11 PM

Paid $1800 for the car in December 2003, 71700 miles.
Paid $110 for new mufflers, and $11 to remove the cat.
Got my K&N filters as a gift
Got a new drivers door handle as a gift (and have yet to install it)
Sold an extra DIC that came with the car, made $50
Paid $250 to get the radiator re-cored.
Paid $66 for new ignition coils.
Paid $26 for boost gauge. (have yet to install)

Total: $2213

I am saving up for a chip right now, and I have a few of the parts I need for the 3100 topend swap I will be doing. I also plan on getting some stock 94-96 GP wheels to replace my stock ones with (I think my wheels are ugly). But none of that is maintenance stuff. However, when I get done doing to the car what I want, I will have upwards of $4000 into it, not including any maintenance that I will have to do during that time. But thats OK, its worth it to me. It will be well worth $4000 to me when I get done with it. But probably only $3k to the general public...but mostly because the 4 doors aren't worth as much as the 2 doors.

Shawn

4PASNU · March 24, 2004, 01:50:49 PM

I'm just going to list what I've done to the car since bought.

Floor Mats - $7 (Walmart)
FFP motor mounts - $130
Brakes - $300 (new pads and rotors)
Exhaust - ~$350 (not completed yet)
Spark plugs- $15

That's it for now. Plus I'm thinking I'm going to have to have the injectors replaced or rebuilt soon. Nothing major so far and I'm hoping it stays that way for a while.

maddux31 · March 24, 2004, 10:47:16 PM

you do not even want to see the list but here it goes.3/8/03 purchase TGP(Seabrook, TX.) $3800 61,393 miles-- drive home was great!! 4/10/03 replace 4 tires Yokahama avid V4's 64.439 miles $475. 4/11/03 trans flush and service 64,450 miles $100. 4/11/03 fuel filter, vacuum connector to turbo, antenna mast, $45. 6/17/03 blown camshaft--remove motor, teardown and clean/detail engine bay 68,871 miles $60. 6/03-9/03 gasket sets/seals/0-rings/etc. $250 8/10/03 new crossover/plug wires/oil return line/o2sensor/fuel injector $625 (thanks to Jeff M.). 8/15/03 ceramic coat all exhaust/intake mans., turbo, rocker covers $460. 11/20/03 cam and lifters $140. 12/11/03 valve springs/timing set/HV oil pump $165. 12/22/03 reassemble/blueprint short block (R & R) (new crank bearings & cam bearings/polish crank/re-ring all pistons/clean and hone block) install all parts I bought $550. 01/06/04 knock sensor/crank sensor/spark plugs $80. 01/15/04 oil for break-in $70 3/17/03 replace 2 spark plugs 71,000miles $10. $200 in supplies/rental/tools for the project. Well that is about it so I'm looking at a $7,200 money pit. It sure does feel good to eat rice whenever you want though. Dale Malcolm, Omaha NE. $45 in 3 oil changes before motor troubles!!!!!

Jeff M · March 25, 2004, 12:20:52 AM

Well, since used cars have been proven in tests and magazines and by myself as being cheaper than owning new, I prefer to find something used (you also don't lose $3,000 to $6,000 when a new car drives off the lot :shock: ) that is unique and fix it up. When its done being fixed up, I not only know everything about it and can work on anything that comes along later, (if it was not replaced to begin with), but I also have a car that is better than new, mainly since I use better/aftermarket parts, and mods I know of to make it the best it can be (without throwing tons of dough at it). With all this new/better stuff the car will last long than the first 15 years it did! MOOG problem solver is great stuff for the suspension, Raybestos for better brakes all around (Prior for a non-$3,200 ABS unit read: $400 which is made better than OEM!), FelPro, Crower and others to do up the engine along with secret mods for better oiling, longer life and more power, other things for turbo and tranny. Then replace all the old crumbling oil and dirt soaked wire looms, strip and paint better all the metal parts like tranny line, PS lines, turbo lines, polish and coat aluminum parts. And of course new sensors all around, why wait for any 14 to 15 year old car parts to fail and strand me, and injectors and plug wires and ignition module etc, my as well get them all out now (like madux!! :D 8) ) so I can be the one to benefit from these not the next owner (NOPE, I never sell anyways). AND, with all this new stuff, the car will run smoother, get better gas mileage, be dependable, and be faster!!! Onto the rest of the car, pull back the bulging carpet on the doors and wash and dry, then with the inside door panel off, spray cleaner on the speaker grill to get rid of that black shadow (looks really NICE when its all the same tan (gray) color), then when dry, glue the carpet back on so it looks new, while there slap in some 5 ? or 6 inch w/tweets separates to upgrade the speakers. Since I hate body work (done lots over the years!), my main factor when looking at a car is no rust or very little, if its solid then open up the door panels and rear panels and wash out the dirt, tape off some areas then spray truck bed liner as a rust proof/undercoating, dupli-color has this and it is thick and tough enough for undercarriage as well, and its NOT like the black tar shit undercoating is, so this coating wipes up clean and easy, does not absorb mud and sand. Use this stuff to treat the trunk lid at the bottom inside where it likes to rust out from, same for the hood, yank out the fender well plastic and go at it there too, this shit is good for subframe if you got the time, and when oil change time comes, the spilt oil all wipes off easy and does not stay with the black tar shit there, dripping for days. I could go on, just did Kevin?s Hieders TGP this way, as you can see from this list which is NOT everything I did to his, takes a lot of commitment and man hours, more work than $$, though having some of that is nice to do things proper! But it gives you something good to do, fun while you learn and very enjoyable when it drives!!! I am doing this kind of work to my TSTE, and while in the engine bay paint it up so it will match the outside color (pealing white for now) someday when I got spare time (HA HA!!) to paint it too. So how much did I spend/look to spend? If I look at owning a new GTP (another reason I buy used/unique cars like a TGP, NOT the ugly new GTP!!!!!), figure monthly payments of $664 for 4 years, back up and consider 1 year/12 payments is equal to $8,000, did not pay that much and the next 3 years I got money in the savings earning some interest instead of paying interest on a loan, and that money there when I need it for new rims (or new plasma TV), or new tires but that new GTP might need new tires too/before 4 years, umm cost of owning the GTP is even more, so is the insurance :!: . SO, used car is best, just get the best used car and have fun!!!

Jeff M

Tooky · March 25, 2004, 12:34:09 AM

I don't think anyone buys a TGP for an investment; we do it because we are willing to pay a little extra (in time, effort, and money) to drive something with power that is unique and looks good; it's also owning an obscure little piece of car history too.

But these cars are definitely money pits, they are failure prone as well as prone to abuse. The trannys fail, the buttons/gadgets quit working (DIC, power seats, remote keyless entry, etc.), the ultra expensive and always-shitty performing WalletMaster III brake system, etc. But at least the motor is very stout, hard to beat that GM 60* V-6, I think it's the RULE rather than the exception, that the 60* V-6 will run well past 100,000 miles, 150,000+ is common. I have 2 of them and my brother has one, all 3 are past 120,000 mi with no problems or maintenance needed other than oil changes and regular owners manual recommendations (keep coolant flushed biyearly so it doesn't get acidic and corrode gaskets; change PCV valves so blowby isn't a factor, etc.)

Anyhow its worth it to most of us when the turbo sings and the tires squeal.. 8) I sometimes get upset at how much $$ this thing requires me to dump into it (even compared to my Syclone that has much higher specific output and receives a lot harder pounding), but then I can always think of my friends buying new Cavaliers on a loan, and then trading them in 2 years later, totally losing their ASS... My friend bought a 2001 Cavalier for ~15K, kept it MINT clean (he is an accomplished car show participant with his Yenko Camaros), when he traded it in 2 years later, he got 5K for it and the salesman didn't even look at the car. So when I think of that, I have a LONG way to go before I even approach the $10,000 he lost on that deal!! (Or anyone who buys/trades in new cars)

Bottom line.. are you willing to put up with these cars and feed them the $$ and care they require? Then it will reward you with uniqueness and performance.

maximage · March 25, 2004, 08:30:46 AM

More than I care to admit.....

TGPto_restore · March 25, 2004, 10:11:58 AM

These are nice cars, this is my third one. First one when I was 16, now 24. They have all cost money. Dont get me wrong, I love the car. I understand everything you say and own one for the same reason. Fun, fairly fast, sort of a sleeper to those who dont know.

Mine is an investment of sorts. I'll keep it around as long as I can, feesibly. California is not an easy place to have a car sit around, there isnt much room as there is and they make you move cars at least once a week for "street cleaning". Yeah they clean sometimes, but it really is to keep people from cluttering the streets with cars. This equals pain in the ass.

As in my name, restore, I figured originally I'd repaint the car, touch up the interior, then mod the motor out and go from there. This was wrong. I'd hate to sell it cuz I really really like it. But it's becoming a money pit as stated, a hobby. Maybe I'll fix the body and try to get some money out of it. A Grand National would be a sweet car, kind of our cars cousin er to say.

Who knows, not bitchin just venting...Like the car though we'll see what happens.

Jeff M · March 25, 2004, 09:04:06 PM

Quote from: TookyCatI don't think anyone buys a TGP for an investment; we do it because we are willing to pay a little extra (in time, effort, and money) to drive something with power that is unique and looks good; it's also owning an obscure little piece of car history too.

But these cars are definitely money pits, they are failure prone as well as prone to abuse. The trannys fail, the buttons/gadgets quit working (DIC, power seats, remote keyless entry, etc.), the ultra expensive and always-shitty performing WalletMaster III brake system, etc. But at least the motor is very stout, hard to beat that GM 60* V-6, I think it's the RULE rather than the exception, that the 60* V-6 will run well past 100,000 miles, 150,000+ is common. I have 2 of them and my brother has one, all 3 are past 120,000 mi with no problems or maintenance needed other than oil changes and regular owners manual recommendations (keep coolant flushed biyearly so it doesn't get acidic and corrode gaskets; change PCV valves so blowby isn't a factor, etc.)

Anyhow its worth it to most of us when the turbo sings and the tires squeal.. 8) I sometimes get upset at how much $$ this thing requires me to dump into it (even compared to my Syclone that has much higher specific output and receives a lot harder pounding), but then I can always think of my friends buying new Cavaliers on a loan, and then trading them in 2 years later, totally losing their ASS... My friend bought a 2001 Cavalier for ~15K, kept it MINT clean (he is an accomplished car show participant with his Yenko Camaros), when he traded it in 2 years later, he got 5K for it and the salesman didn't even look at the car. So when I think of that, I have a LONG way to go before I even approach the $10,000 he lost on that deal!! (Or anyone who buys/trades in new cars)

Bottom line.. are you willing to put up with these cars and feed them the $$ and care they require? Then it will reward you with uniqueness and performance.

NOT AGAIN :evil: Will you give it a rest :agrue: , many owners have PM'd me and emailed me getting tired of you repeatedly beating on this 15 year old car's reputation :roll: No used car even this old is simple or free to maintain! You were a smart man and I respect you a lot 8) for admitting your manual boost is what took out your tranny before it's time and we are all sorry for you, truly (and I will keep on contact on helping you out in emails)!! But this is not the norm if you read the Tranny rebuttal I posted on this board :roll: ! It has been said over and over, things like; $400 for the ABS (not $3,200 from GM), which like everything I have mentioned but won't to save space, could have been avoided if someone just puts some concern/care to it by flushing out the 15 year old water contaminated old brake fluid (it does rust the internalls etc) and the lines and calipers, AND if people were to replace the accumulator they would not be wearing out their ABS pump motor relays and fuses and relays! The T-Type/GN have it worse, when their accumulator goes out, you DO NOT have panic brake capability, I would take the annoying often running pump with a bad accumulator over not having brakes in an emergency. And comparing the TGP to the Syclone and Typhoon, I would pick the TGP :headbang: . You just said to me in an email about your TGP tranny rebuild thoughts (good ones I might add 8) ) that lots of SyTy tranny rebuild shops do a lot of work on these and as well, and don?t like giving out their secrets (same with me on anything I have spend several tranny rebuilds and tons of $$ and hours coming up with), the 700R4 is prone to have 3rd gear failure, nothing associated with the abuse these get at launch, and 4th gear does not happen at WOT (double-check me on this) so another awesome GM turbo car that does not have 4th gear at WOT!! These damn trucks are a bitch to replace the plugs every year like they need, and eat up plug wires, distributor caps and rotors, and have common vacuum leaks in their nightmare of vacuum lines. Suck ass to get to the distributor to set/adjust/correct the timing. Changing injectors is more work than on the TGP. And these things steer like shit stock :evil: , needing a lot of research and testing to find all the fixs to make it better (I was the first to spend all the time and money testing the proper fix back in 1995, released it in 1996 posting it on the SyTy mailing list that everyone now uses, or claims is their own :roll: ). These things eat shocks too, nothing other than $400 HALs each will last. The damn Typhoons have 5 common bitchin annoying squeak areas in the back that take a lot of work to fix, then need work again after a year when the problems return. Adjusting the wastegate rod is a pain to get to. I can go on and on with the SyTys but any car has its things, some more than others, but the more goodies the more things that might wear out after 15 years, nothing is built to last forever, and the harder you drive any car, the more frequent things will wear out or break!!! Last, and I have harped this key perspective over and over here, so again, we have maybe 50 to 75 (frequentors a lot less!) TGP owners here, and that number does not reflect the 7,000 owners out there, that most of them I have talked to through emails so I know!! And they are not problem prone as is skewed here, THINK about this :shocked!: , people get on the internet to find fixes for their cars (any car), and if a TGP owner, come here for help?..NOW think about how many TGP owners get on the internet if they do not have problems, just looking to come here and say ?My TGP is/has been running great for years, thanks for asking goodbye!? :silly: This board and a few members give a bad name for the TGP, and it suck to keep hearing it for me and others. We feel for you, we do and is why we spend so much of our free time helping out. So I said it before and for others, stop hating and bitchen about our cars :evil: THANKS :D 8) .

Jeff M

Tooky · March 25, 2004, 10:38:41 PM

I'll keep it short; my points still stand, and I should have added the $500 crossover pipe as well. The SyTy does shift into 4th at WOT (the only 700-R4 to do so I believe), mine has well over 1000 WOT 3-4 shifts on the stock tranny (!). Yes the SyTy are bitches of trucks to maintain & work on, there is no doubt, although I'd rather change spark plugs on my truck in 30 minutes than to rotate the motor and reach to the rear of my transverse V6 which takes me over 1 hour to do.

But your point is taken, I am sorry for sounding like I have a negative attitude, I admit my TGP has gotten me down lately, and I became even more frustrated when I finally found a way to make the power I wanted only to be told it can't be done or there isn't a tranny available or there isn't a chip available or I should buy a GTP if I want to do that. Hopefully if I end up sticking to the TGP project, I will overcome these odds and at some point down the line be able to say I made my car damn fast and had a lot of fun doing it. So I apologize and will try to keep my negative posts to constructive criticism instead of "whiny complaints" (my term).

Jeff M · March 25, 2004, 11:22:52 PM

Quote from: TookyCatI'll keep it short; my points still stand, and I should have added the $500 crossover pipe as well. The SyTy does shift into 4th at WOT (the only 700-R4 to do so I believe), mine has well over 1000 WOT 3-4 shifts on the stock tranny (!). Yes the SyTy are bitches of trucks to maintain & work on, there is no doubt, although I'd rather change spark plugs on my truck in 30 minutes than to rotate the motor and reach to the rear of my transverse V6 which takes me over 1 hour to do.

Ok, I hear ya, but you should get the same lame pipe from GM, the price is over $1,550 plus tax now :shock: You can see how long it has been since I have had time to work on my car/truck, I don't remember if 4th worked at WOT, only an aftermarket upgrade part that said it would allow a mod for 4th into WOT got me thinking this way, thanks for correcting me! I think you have had practice on your Sy plugs, if you get a $15 scissor tool tilting the engine is a breeze and after a few time, will be at least as easy as doing your Sy. As for the 3rd gear, ?.in the words of Jim Carrey: ?Reeeealy??.so like other TGP owners who have not had problems with their Tranny or others things like you say are common, like your Sy and TGP, problems do not effect everyone and maybe is not that common? :shock: :lol: :P Actually its going into 3rd that is troublesome, but more so at moderate power when the TV that also controls line pressure has low pressure then it's not good enough for long term durability, and I have read this on a number of aftermarket upgrade sites that offer a fix for this common (for some :lol: ) problem, and have it on mine, burnt 3rd clutches :cry: . But at least someone like me has a killer tranny kit for the SyTy guys, Brain Green I believe, who I am having Dig install for me, maybe next winter when I get time to work on that truck (sitting for 3 years now waiting, that's sick :roll: ).

Quote from: TookyCatBut your point is taken, I am sorry for sounding like I have a negative attitude, I admit my TGP has gotten me down lately, and I became even more frustrated when I finally found a way to make the power I wanted only to be told it can't be done or there isn't a tranny available or there isn't a chip available or I should buy a GTP if I want to do that. Hopefully if I end up sticking to the TGP project, I will overcome these odds and at some point down the line be able to say I made my car damn fast and had a lot of fun doing it. So I apologize and will try to keep my negative posts to constructive criticism instead of "whiny complaints" (my term).

Like I said, I understand your bad luck and frustration and wish it was not so for you, and is why you get help here, and from me often as I can :lol: Actaully no one shares that feeling with your more than me from the hundreds of emails I get every few months, multiplied over the last 9 years helping people fix every little, and/or big thing they have, too often its NOT the car problem but a previouse bad fix, maybe that is why it bugs me more to hear you fuss :P. I think once the TGP gets less of an unknown to work on, and gets easier, and you get these big problems out of the way, you will be able to enjoy the car like many do, and have the respect from others that you did all the work to make it better, and faster 8) Just don't tell anyone you are good at fixing and working on these or your emails will pile up fast, along with questions on if you can help everyone turbo their "XXXX" car, or what you think about this part and this cam and on and on :shock: :D

Jeff M