Nick's Rolling TGP Thread

[TGP Nick]

I just started on a major tuneup on my TGP, since it has all original everything on it and wasn't running so great last year.  As some of you may recall, I had a shuddering problem for the last couple weeks I drove the car last year, and the last day I drove it last year it kept stalling all the time.

SO today I started on the tuneup.  I will be pulling the upper and lower intakes and valve covers and replacing the gaskets on all of them, since they are all original and I'm sure could use replacement.  I will also be replacing every sensor on the engine, along with new plugs and wires.

I am waiting for parts to come in the mail, so I started off today by pulling off my intake plenum and throttle body.  From there, I removed my EGR, TB, and all sensors. 

I looked inside the intake plenum and it smelled VERY strongly of gas (even though the car hasn't run in 6 months) and the inside of the plenum was coated with a black substance.  Also, there was a bit of dirt collecting on top of my LIM, looked like something may have leaked from my UIM gasket and ran all over the top of the LIM.  I brought the upper plenum out and filled it with kerosene and tried to clean some of the black residue from the plenum, and some did come out.  I scrubbed the ports in the plenum with an old toothbrush and that helped a lot, but I could only get about 1" into each port with the toothbrush and the rest of the inside of the plenum is still pretty dirty.

Anyone have any good recommendations for chemicals to clean it or something to scrub the whole intake out?

If I have time tomorrow, I will be pulling the lower intake manifold next.  For those of you who have pulled these out, do you have any tips before I do this?

Thanks

Nick

[dogbone]

Nick, I like varsol, I soak a lot of parts in it and they really come out clean and disolves oil.

[cobracmdr]

Get some carb cleaner for that plenum.  The gas smell is normal remember this is MPFI so it fires the injectors in pairs.......which means it is dumping gas into the cylinders even when they are not on the compression stroke.  Hence why the sfi 3100 gets much better fuel economy than then 3.1 mpfi among other reasons.  Good luck and be careful with the crank position sensor on the back side.......they tend to break off in the block.

Ken

[GOT2B GM]

In no particular order:

Get new o-rings for all your injectors, and fuel line connections.

Clean your IAC pintle and the IAC port.

Remove the plug on the back of the plenum, and use it as a vacuum supply for boost gauge, BOV etc.

Find some 1.6 / 1 ratio stamped rocker arms, with pushrod guides from a 94 - 95 3100 and swap those in.

If you have any valvetrain noise now is the time to inspect for a collapsed lifter, bent pushrod etc.

Bypass the throttle body heater with a piece of prebent heater hose.

Replace the distributor plug o-ring when its all apart.

Take the LIM and plenum to a machine shop and get them to hot tank them. It will remove ALL carbon deposits and clean up the aluminum like brand new.

The pushrods are different lengths for exhaust and intake valves. Don't mess them up.

The LIM gasket must be installed before the pushrods go in.

Don't be shy with the RTV for the 2 beads on the top of the block.

Use AC delco plugs.


Thats all I can think of of the top of my head right now.

[dogginred90]

Keep those LIM bolts in the same place they came from. I messed up when I did my 2.8 and the LIM kept leaking and the car ran like crap. Other then that have fun. I am pulling motor out soon and doing complete gasket change out.

[TGP Nick]

Get some carb cleaner for that plenum.  The gas smell is normal remember this is MPFI so it fires the injectors in pairs.......which means it is dumping gas into the cylinders even when they are not on the compression stroke.  Hence why the sfi 3100 gets much better fuel economy than then 3.1 mpfi among other reasons.  Good luck and be careful with the crank position sensor on the back side.......they tend to break off in the block.

Ken

Actually, the last time I drove it and it kept stalling, I think it may have backfired a couple times, hence all of the black crap all over the intake.  There was also black crap all over the TB I had just cleaned 3000 miles prior.


I'll use this as a quick checklist

In no particular order:

Get new o-rings for all your injectors, and fuel line connections. Done when I replaced the injectors this past summer.

Clean your IAC pintle and the IAC port. Will be replacing IAC and TPS also.

Remove the plug on the back of the plenum, and use it as a vacuum supply for boost gauge, BOV etc. I have a different idea for vac supply for the BOV.  Thanks for the tip though ;)

Find some 1.6 / 1 ratio stamped rocker arms, with pushrod guides from a 94 - 95 3100 and swap those in.

If you have any valvetrain noise now is the time to inspect for a collapsed lifter, bent pushrod etc.

Bypass the throttle body heater with a piece of prebent heater hose.

Replace the distributor plug o-ring when its all apart. First thing I did when I got the car

Take the LIM and plenum to a machine shop and get them to hot tank them. It will remove ALL carbon deposits and clean up the aluminum like brand new. Great tip ;)  I'll have to do that

The pushrods are different lengths for exhaust and intake valves. Don't mess them up.

The LIM gasket must be installed before the pushrods go in.

Don't be shy with the RTV for the 2 beads on the top of the block.

Use AC delco plugs. Already bought them.


Thats all I can think of of the top of my head right now.

Matt, are these the correct rockers and parts needed to do the 1.6 rocker swap: http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=66405.0  Which is better, the stamped rockers, or roller tips?
It did have a quiet knock sometimes upon cold startup, so I'll have to check everything out in there.  Also, do I have to adjust the valves when doing the new lifter swap?  I have never had one of these engines apart, so I don't know what to expect.  I am used to DOHC engines. :icon_redface:


Thanks for the tips everyone!

[GOT2B GM]

Yup those are the stamped rockers. Direct bolt on.

I beleive the rollers require special length pushrods, but dont quote me on that.

Rollers are better, stamped are easier, your call.



Just torque the rocker arms down to spec. There is no lash adjustment.

[TGP Nick]

Awesome thanks, Matt.

Today I pulled my Alternator, PS pump, and the mounting brackets for both off, along with the coolant pipes, fuel lines, then the valve covers and LIM.  There was a bit of coolant left in the LIM when I took it off.. is this something to worry about if any coolant gets into the cylinders?  All the intake valves appear to be closed, but I'm just wondering.

Everything came off pretty easily, but one minor setback did take place.  I was unbolting the coolant pipe from the top of the water pump and the head on one of the bolts snapped off.
I was thinking about removing the waterpump housing, but it appears to be one very big piece alongside the engine... is this easy to remove or no?  I was also wondering if it is fairly easy to remove the aluminum motor mount mounted on the left side of the engine, by the waterpump.

Thanks

[mfewtrail]

There was a bit of coolant left in the LIM when I took it off.. is this something to worry about if any coolant gets into the cylinders?  All the intake valves appear to be closed, but I'm just wondering.

Some coolant probably splashed into the engine valley too(a little bit does on some LIM jobs I do), so be sure to change the oil before starting it up again.

Everything came off pretty easily, but one minor setback did take place.  I was unbolting the coolant pipe from the top of the water pump and the head on one of the bolts snapped off.
I was thinking about removing the waterpump housing, but it appears to be one very big piece alongside the engine... is this easy to remove or no?  I was also wondering if it is fairly easy to remove the aluminum motor mount mounted on the left side of the engine, by the waterpump.

The water pump housing is built into the timing cover. I would attempt to extract the bolt or drill it out before pulling the entire timing cover. Did it break off even with the bolt hole? If worse comes to worse, it isn't real bad to pull the cover though. I broke off one of those bolts in my black TGP and extracted it with bolt extractor set(easy out). Use the largest one that can go in the bolt. If you use one of the smaller ones, you're likely going to break the easy out and then you're stuck with an even bigger problem(they're hard to drill through). If you use a bolt extractor, try to keep it as straight as possible.

[TGP Nick]

There was a bit of coolant left in the LIM when I took it off.. is this something to worry about if any coolant gets into the cylinders?  All the intake valves appear to be closed, but I'm just wondering.

Some coolant probably splashed into the engine valley too(a little bit does on some LIM jobs I do), so be sure to change the oil before starting it up again.

Whew thats a big sigh of relef for me. Thank you.

The water pump housing is built into the timing cover. I would attempt to extract the bolt or drill it out before pulling the entire timing cover. Did it break off even with the bolt hole? If worse comes to worse, it isn't real bad to pull the cover though. I broke off one of those bolts in my black TGP and extracted it with bolt extractor set(easy out). Use the largest one that can go in the bolt. If you use one of the smaller ones, you're likely going to break the easy out and then you're stuck with an even bigger problem(they're hard to drill through). If you use a bolt extractor, try to keep it as straight as possible.

There is probably 1/8" of the bolt sticking out, so I'm going to try to grab it with a vice grips and unscrew it like that.  I was just curious if the water pump housing was easy to remove, because mine was kinda dirty and I wanted to take it off to clean it.  I guess I'm too anal about things being clean :laugh:

Thanks again

[grinders_18]

If you can get the bolt up even a little, use a cheater to remove the rest of the bolt...worked for me on my alternator bolt that time.

[mfewtrail]

There is probably 1/8" of the bolt sticking out, so I'm going to try to grab it with a vice grips and unscrew it like that.  I was just curious if the water pump housing was easy to remove, because mine was kinda dirty and I wanted to take it off to clean it.  I guess I'm too anal about things being clean :laugh:

Spray the shit out of the timing cover with a foaming degreaser a few times and then hose it off. It'll take off almost every bit of grease, etc. I'll take some before/after pictures of my degreasing. My red TGP engine is nastyyyyyyyyy from valve cover leaks over the years.

[TGP Nick]

There is a little bit of corrosion on the cover as well, have any tips for taking that off?  I'm not sure why there is corrosion there, there isn't any corrosion anywhere else in the engine bay :dunno:

[mfewtrail]

What does the corrosion look like? I've removed some real light corrosion with some barely diluted Castrol degreaser before. The castrol stuff was in the purple bottle. Don't get that stuff on paint unless you really dilute it as it will fade paint. Other than that, I've heard that "aluminum jelly" works well for removing corrosion, oxidation, etc. from aluminum. A few guys with motorcycles that I know have used it on their engines with good results.

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(kx2mud55qbf5ombdbzgtazjf)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=12042

EDIT: Here's another recommendation from Edelbrock about cleaning cast aluminum.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/pop_cleantips.html

[TGP Nick]

Its pretty light, just a bit of discoloration on the surface.  I'll have to get a pic of it the next time I work on it.

I have another question about 1.6 rockers, what do the pushrod guide plates I need to use with the 1.6 rockers look like?  I am thinking about buying this set and I'm not sure whether or not they are included:
http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=66405.0