Tired of the 440T4? Or is your 440T4 just tired?

pontiac6ksteawd · April 11, 2009, 09:38:29 PM

How would you like to take that 440T4 out, and replace it, with some work, with a functioning 4T65EHD tranny?

Well, now it can be done!!

A buddy over on another forum has done this conversion with complete success on his car, and its probly the next conversion I would be looking at if I keep my TGP.

The thread has rebuild pics, wiring schematics, how-tos, etc. Check it out, I gave the builder the link to this forum, so he might be joining, to answer any questions you might have, or, you can join this forum, and ask them there..

http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1589

Check it out!!

GPChief · April 11, 2009, 10:34:59 PM

IIRC that tranny controller is the same one we use on the HMMWV's, I had often wondered if I could use it for a swap. Know I know and will go to the "Military" junk yard on post next week and pick up some controllers :icon_mrgreen:.

TGP Nick · April 11, 2009, 10:48:32 PM

What are the benefits of running a 4T65 vs the 4T60?

pontiac6ksteawd · April 11, 2009, 10:57:18 PM

Its a programmable tranny ECU, so you can keep the tranny in the turbos power band, instead of over-revving it where it looses so much power. Its also a much better tranny, with a bigger aftermarket (limited slip difs, LSD, racing clutch kits, and much more).

turbokinetic · April 11, 2009, 11:01:28 PM

Quote from: TGP Nick on April 11, 2009, 10:48:32 PM
What are the benefits of running a 4T65 vs the 4T60?

Alright! New here, and happy that Brian shared my post from A-Body . Net over here.

TGP Nick:

In addition to what pontiac6ksteawd said...

From what the ATSG transmission service manuals say, the 4T56E is stronger in several key areas such as the 4th clutch, final drive, and charge pump. One functional difference is the pressure control system. The 4T60 and 4T60E both use a vacuum modulator to control pump pressure. The 4T65E uses an electronic pressure control valve to control pressure. The transmission ECM (or PCM) controls the current through this coil to control the pressure. It is fully tunable by tables in the ECM, mainly based on throttle position. You have much easier control over the pressures via the ECM tables, than with a modulator adjustment.

There is one set of (relatively) simple tables that works at WOT and KICKDOWN, you can adjust this for your max performance without altering the normal drivability in any way.

The TCC clutch is strong enough to hold a 3.8 SFI Turbo at 18 PSI boost, eliminating lost power to TC slippage.

GPChief:
YES that is the same controller. Get the chip, too. I had to pay $30 for an adpater to get a chip to fit the flunky "BLUE" chip socket. If you plan to use a real-time emulator, you will need the adapter anyway however.

Thanks for letting me on here!
David

pontiac6ksteawd · April 11, 2009, 11:04:50 PM

Quote from: GPChief on April 11, 2009, 10:34:59 PM
IIRC that tranny controller is the same one we use on the HMMWV's, I had often wondered if I could use it for a swap. Know I know and will go to the "Military" junk yard on post next week and pick up some controllers :icon_mrgreen:.

Pick me one up to, but I have to ask you to hold on to it until I get to the point where I can take on this project (lack of funds, and the car is 1000 miles away!)! If you dont mind :)

pontiac6ksteawd · April 11, 2009, 11:05:52 PM

TGPNick, also another great advantage of this tranny, you dont have to convert your car over to OBD2 to take advantage of a better tranny..

turbokinetic · April 11, 2009, 11:10:07 PM

Quote from: pontiac6ksteawd on April 11, 2009, 11:04:50 PM
Pick me one up to, but I have to ask you to hold on to it until I get to the point where I can take on this project (lack of funds, and the car is 1000 miles away!)! If you dont mind :)

You're lucky to have a military JY - I had to buy a reman trans ECU.

I did find one used one, but it was missing the chip, and appeared to have been wet. I think it was a core left at a salvege yard. I feel that way because the chip had been taken out to be used in the "new" one. Reman was less than $200 including having to eat the core charge. But still that's more than I would have liked to pay.

David

mfewtrail · April 11, 2009, 11:21:02 PM

That's some great info there. :icon_mrgreen: Definitely a much cheaper alternative to the aftermarket controllers out there.

Welcome to the board David. ;) I passed through close to Northport, AL last year on I-20 when I picked up my 2nd Turbo Grand Prix from Columbus, MS.

z284pwr · April 12, 2009, 12:15:05 AM

Do you have an engine bay shot? I think the biggest problem with the 4T65E-HD is the location of the transmission connector, if I remember it's like right where the turbos sit on the TGPs.

turbokinetic · April 12, 2009, 12:32:37 AM

Quote from: z284pwr on April 12, 2009, 12:15:05 AM
Do you have an engine bay shot? I think the biggest problem with the 4T65E-HD is the location of the transmission connector, if I remember it's like right where the turbos sit on the TGPs.

It was VERY CLOSE to the turbo on my car. I originally built the turbo system around a 440T4 transmission. I had to mod the shift cable bracket, and put aluminum lagging on the wire harness to keep the heat off it. Don't know if these pictures will help you see it much but here goes:

Here you can see how it relates to the bellhousing. The one round black connector is part of my harness and does not have to be in that location.

flybynite · April 12, 2009, 08:36:24 AM

I had often thought about trying to retrofit a 4T65-E into my TGP. Glad you have got it figured out. To bad I all ready went 5 speed or I would be all over this... ;)

turbokinetic · April 12, 2009, 08:47:30 AM

Interesting about the 5 speed. I have never owned a 5 speed car! Nothing against them, just all my stuff has been auto. Do you have a write-up on the 5 speed conversion?

It seems the automatic / Turbo combo works well since there is no need to "shut down" the engine to shift.

My car is actually a Buick Century but GM is GM and you know how our powertrains are common across lines! I wonder if the TGP turbo mount is indeed in the way of the trans case as z284pwr is concerned.

I would love to see someone else do this swap and compare notes.

Thanks,
David

GPChief · April 12, 2009, 10:44:25 AM

Quote from: pontiac6ksteawd on April 11, 2009, 11:04:50 PM
Pick me one up to, but I have to ask you to hold on to it until I get to the point where I can take on this project (lack of funds, and the car is 1000 miles away!)! If you dont mind :)

I'll see how many I can find and I'll let you know.

mfewtrail · April 12, 2009, 12:58:08 PM

I just looked at my red car since it doesn't have a turbo blanket on it and the transaxle is much more visible. It appears that we probably have quite a bit more work to do to fit the taller 65-E. I can't say for sure, but it appears our crossover, turbo mounting bracket, etc. will be contacting the 65-E if left in the stock position. The biggest area of concern is that the 65-E appears to be a bit taller right in the area where our turbo mounting bracket & x-over turbo flange sit. Even without our turbo mounting bracket, I think the x-over flange and/or turbine housing would still be hitting the transaxle.

It would be nice to see someone with a complete turbo 3.1 that isn't installed in a car try to bolt up the 65-E. I know a lot of you guys have spare engines, turbos, etc. ;)