I have 2 denso heated o2s, and a acdelco heated o2.
I've tried them all
once it goes into closed loop the BLM stays at 128, but INT starts going down and it stalls. keeps stalling a few seconds after I start it up again
when I put in my 1wire o2 BLM&INT stay at 128 when its in closed loop
also I notice the o2 cross counts go up fast on the non-heated one once its warmed up.
with the heated ones it either goes up slow as shit, or not at all
Are your o2s new.I have had good results from the A/C delco AFS74 and AFS75.Do you have both grounds from the o2 ran to the same spot...If so move one to another location.Do yourself a favor and buy a wideband.You can get one from RPM outlet for 279.99 plus shipping and it's the same as the AEM kit that cost over 400 plus dollars.It has two analog outputs and one will do a 0-1volt reference to keep your computer happy.I run open loop ALL THE TIME :icon_eek: (keeping the wideband happy)so I don't need that function but if you wont closed loop you got it.If you have slow or no cross counts the o2 is USUALLY bad..Later..Adam
Quote from: flybynite on December 10, 2006, 01:07:19 PM
Are your o2s new.I have had good results from the A/C delco AFS74 and AFS75.Do you have both grounds from the o2 ran to the same spot...If so move one to another location.Do yourself a favor and buy a wideband.You can get one from RPM outlet for 279.99 plus shipping and it's the same as the AEM kit that cost over 400 plus dollars.It has two analog outputs and one will do a 0-1volt reference to keep your computer happy.I run open loop ALL THE TIME :icon_eek: (keeping the wideband happy)so I don't need that function but if you wont closed loop you got it.If you have slow or no cross counts the o2 is USUALLY bad..Later..Adam
I do have the heater ground and sensor ground running to the same spot. I will try moving one. thanks!
Same...
had good luck with AC delco's but not Bosch O2's
I seperated the grounds.
now the o2 cross counts were going up quick right away, but then after about 3 minutes they stopped moving
it didnt go into closed loop either, and should have by that long?
Run the non heater O2s ground stright to the ECM box's chassis. You might have a badly ground engine or ground wires on the car frame to battery.
maybe the ground is too long? shouldn't ever be longer than 18 inches.
Quote from: GangstGP on December 12, 2006, 02:28:25 PM
maybe the ground is too long? shouldn't ever be longer than 18 inches.
Do what? Which ground should not be longer than 18"? Where are you getting this measurment from? What gauge wire is limited to 18" and from what point to what point?
its a general "rule of thumb" for all wireing on all 12 volt shit. it can be longer but 1. no need 2. more resistence.
grounds need to be improved, but making them longer does not improve them.
Quote from: GangstGP on December 14, 2006, 03:18:13 PM
its a general "rule of thumb" for all wiring on all 12 volt shit. it can be longer but 1. no need 2. more Resistance.
grounds need to be improved, but making them longer does not improve them.
You may want to pay closer attention to the under hood wiring and how fuel injectors are wired and fired, along with how coils are wired and fired, or how wiring from a switch, to a relay, then to a motor is wired on most 12vDC systems.
You also need to consider basic Ohm's Law for what is required to properly wire and feed any loading device.
Lastly...you are telling me that in a 12vDC system with say
10amp load...if I have a piece of 10 gauge wire 18" long it will have less resistance and flow more power than a 10 gauge wire 4' (feet) long?
THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING FOR POSTING YOUR OFF THE CUFF BS INFO AS FACTUAL!Do our grounds need to be improved? When the connections are dirty or internally corroded. We have heavy gauge wire in place that seems to work just fine for most. I can touch any portion of my motor with one lead on the ohm meter and any area that is a clean ground and see 0-0.5 ohms of resistance. Seems to work just fine for thousands.
There is only one concern with long wire O2 sensors..and thats Radio Interferance from either coils, or actual radio signals, but the ecm should have a filter built in to filter it out from the O2 wire.
Yes I agree that an 02 sensor's wiring should be shielded and well grounded (remotely), but Gangstgp has stepped in with his two cents about something he knows nothing about yet again and stated it as fact.
Back on topic...
Our cars are are not the best thing to base an ideal setup on anyway...but it works just fine. One wire using the body of the 02 as a ground. Same wire travels clear across the engine bay and to the ECM on the other side of the car. When doing datalogging or sets, I have never seen noise in the 02 signal except when it is close to failing.
Unless you are running another 02 like Adam spoke of which runs W/B and Narrow signal there is no sense to "upgrading" what we have on there. It takes 30-45 seconds for our 02 to fire off. If you do not let your car sit for at least 45 seconds on a cold morning...your 02 sensor is the LEAST of your worries!
once again, I have been here WAY before you got this gig. It is a FACT that that is a rule of thumb for car electronics, and I have proof of this in a instruction manual from one of the top car audio manufacturers in the world for wiring their amplifiers. now I have never seen a ground in a car much longer than 18 inches stock so let me know if you can find one. maybe the block-to-battery but thats much thicker than the rest.
You want to argue the fact that longer wires need to be thicker to carry the same signal?
ok guys I figured out the problem and it wasnt the ground itself, but I had the wires mixed up
on heated o2's there is 2black wires (or which ever wires are 2 of the same color) and one of those goes to 12v, the other ground. you can even switch them around
before I had both black wires going to ground, the purple to ecm and the white wire to switched 12v
very confusing how they made the wires but oh well I know now
Usually with sensors you aren't drawing very much current so the main thing is avoiding noise and making a clean connection. Length of wire is much less of a concern. Whereas with an amp or anything that needs real juice, length of wire really plays a part. Voltage drop is dependant upon current. A clean connection is always a must. I'm not a mechanic, but I know how electricity operates.
Quote from: GangstGP on December 16, 2006, 12:55:52 PM
once again, I have been here WAY before you got this gig.
Do you really think I have only been turning wrenches on cars, involved with and degreed in electronics, mechanics, turbo and supercharger applications, fabrication, racing, crew chief on numerous cars, and motorcycles just since I took over this forum or since I bought the red TGP from Waskie 4 or 5 years ago?
How old are you? Unless you are older than 27 I have been working on cars, trucks, motorcyles, and go-karts, and building engines for all of them since BEFORE you were born!
Talking about high current applications like 5,000+ watt stereo systems and comparing that to what a cars ECM, sensor and control wiring, and/or normal light wiring needs is like comparing an apple to an M-1 Abrams Tank! There is no relation!!
By all means scan and post your instruction manual showing that
all car electronics needs to have a ground wire that is equal to or less than 18". Then we will call Chrysler, GM, Ford, Haltech, Motech, Autronic, BMEP, and any other aftermarket ECU company I deal with and tell them their electrical wiring is completely wrong and it needs to be changed because of the 18" rule.
I will argue all day long with you about a thin wire carring the same "signal" as a heavy gauge wire. Now I do know the difference between a "signal" and a "current load" and again you are not comparing the same things. Put 800amps of current through a 12 gauge wire and it will help keep your hands warm in the winter! But run a 5mvDc square wave signal through that 12 gauge wire and it can be 10 feet long and still have the same strength at the other end!
To the new people and current members of the forum...I hate ignorance and someone who pushes ignorance as fact. It happens alot on other forums and I will not have it on my forum. This is the only reason I am banning GangstGP because he has been warned NUMEROUS TIMES about this garbage!
Sorry to have this in the open areas of the forum...but I am damned tired of it!
Wow. I am really impressed with your experience as listed in post above. Would you plaese email me all of your knowledge. At least I know where to locate an apparent expert.
Though I won't PUSH bad information, I may occasionally err. LOL
Since car sat in a garage for 8 years, being rarely moved, time had the opportunity to destroy my crossover, I'd imagine at the bellows. Exhaust fumes abound in my passenger compartment, when I accelerate substantially. Heater setting is worse about fumes than Vent setting. I always use Vent setting anyway. A/C should get repaired next spring, and my leaking windshield needs attention, though sunroof drains are clear and seal there is not ideal. I'll wax the car in the Spring and it should be good for most, if not all, of the summer.
I'd like to know how much loss in performance can be quantified with my a defective crossover pipe. Are there any quantifiable numbers available? If possible, please compare effects and pressures and/or pertinent temperatures at turbo and intake and cylinder.
Also, when building chips, do designers compensate for EGR function providing cooling effect at intake?
Who has the best replacement crossover pipe available? What are all of the options and their various costs?
Stock at dealer about $165 plus another $165 to install. I might just do that because it may be Spring before I can drive to ideal repair location. I could get any crossover installed though I won't be doing that labor myself.
Quote from: Larry M on December 17, 2006, 09:37:47 AM
Wow. I am really impressed with your experience as listed in post above. Would you plaese email me all of your knowledge. At least I know where to locate an apparent expert.
I do not know if you are being sarcastic here or not. I have NEVER posed as an expert in anything. I can run circles around some...and take a humble seat with others. Just like this last week in Vancouver being personally trained by the BEST diesel tranny EXPERT in the world. Companies like Chrysler, GM, and Ford have all been to his shop taking notes on how to improve there production trannies.
Quote from: Larry M on December 17, 2006, 09:37:47 AMThough I won't PUSH bad information, I may occasionally err. LOL
There have been many times that I have written something in error. I am NOT perfect nor do I pose to be. But when people consistantly post BS as factual when myself and NUMEROUS other people know is a load of crap I won't stand for it. I do not want people who are new to TGP/TSTE to think these cars are fireballs because of the purple ignition wire as (incorrectly stated by Gangstgp), or that they need to add 20 lbs in 2 gauge wire to have a proper ground (incorrectly stated by Gangstgp), wires inside the gas tank being poor and them melting (incorrectly stated by Gangstgp), telling people to USE the purple ignition wire as a power source for the heated 02s although he had already stated they were to small a gauge for just the duty of energizing the solenoid at start.
The list goes on and on and frankly when someone new comes on the site searching for issues with the TGP/TSTE I do not want them becoming completely mis-informed by BS as factual posts.
Now for the rest of what you are asking about...by all means post your questions accordingly and they will be answered. Scott's thread has been high-jacked long enough.
My apologies Scott that your thread ended up being a battle-ground! :icon_redface:
Although I tried to inject a bit of humor, I was not being facetious or sarcastic. I respect your ablities which are obviously extensive, I know that nobody knows everything though. There is a lot to learn about TGP's and this is probably the best place for me to do that, unless undercar. : )
Ok no worries. Maybe one of the emoticons after the sentence will help to decifer your joke or serious-ness. ;)
I want to run a forum full of FACTS not BS that someone might have heard or read on another forum by god knows who and have that stated as fact. Just because it is on the internet does not make it reality. I have bit my tongue with him for at least a year about his posts and I had finally had it. Luke and Dave will verify that I have posted in the moderator area a few times and Dave calmed me down to give him another chance.
Quote from: TGPilot on December 17, 2006, 05:12:38 PM
Dave will verify that as I have posted in the moderator area a few times and Dave calmed me down to give him another chance.
MANY Times!!
but problem solved now