Hey Jeff M. or Mechanic(Mick) or anyone for that matter...I was wondering if you guy were able to convert the TGP into a 3bar. I heard of smeagol from the SYTY site was able to convert the SYTY .bin into a 3bar. Have you had any success with this? What is involve in this?....do you recomend a spicific dessiabler(spelling)??? or a site. Not just for a 3bar code...but also to have options on the chip...IE...have a togle switch to change form stock timming,street/strip, and strip.  I would also like to see if theres such a thing as boost limit on MPH..? Letmme know....Please..
Thanks.   :)

Well, I'm not JeffM, or Mick, but here's a few answers.   :D  There has been no luck w/ the 3bar on the $8F, I have been talking to Mick about it on his site w/ no luck yet.  If Jeff has, he's holding out on us, but seems he's to busy to worry about it as of yet.  And to be honest, I don't know if it's worth the work.  Curtis is running beyone the mechanical capabilities of his drivetrain as it is, and he's running pretty low boost (compaired to other platforms that is)  I do know there is a point at which the chip can remove boost built into the chip if that's what you're asking.  HTH.

The reason for the 3bar code is not just that I want to run higher boost. But I also want to have options for driability. See my sighn..I made a bet/promice that I was going to get as close or at 500 hp on the 3.1. Sounds like im cocky right. Well im not saying that its going to be making 500 all day long...It will be a dyno queen for that set time. And I know that 14psi isn't going to cut it no matter if my heads flow a millon cfm. Oh...I won't be running stock pipes eather. You could count on a big snail.

By the way...I have those pic of the 65. They'll be on my site soon.

:wink:

507 FWHP, will put my car into the 11's.  That's my goal as well.  Should be a fun run to the dyno.  Can't wait to see the pics.  I'm having problems w/ the digicam right now, trying to get those pics I told you about.

Quote from: god910507 FWHP, will put my car into the 11's.  That's my goal as well.  Should be a fun run to the dyno.  Can't wait to see the pics.  I'm having problems w/ the digicam right now, trying to get those pics I told you about.

I sure hope that 507fwhp would put your car into the 11's!!!  My dads GTP put out 315fwhp and it runs 12.2's....I think 507fwhp would put you in the low 10's or maybe even 9's.  But good luck making 507fwhp...

Shawn

So theres the timming tables I have to mess around with that will take most of the time. So if I have to mess with that..then I would have to mess with the fueling too. Sounds easy...  :lol:  .

I don't think I would be able to dangle 500hp on this car for too long. Im hoping it would at least hang in there for the dyno runs. Yup..I know about the engine beeing able to take the power. I would even prob have to put block filler and all sorts of racing junk on there.

Oh heres the link god910
http://members.cardomain.com/turbogtu

Quote from: TurboGTUThe reason for the 3bar code is not just that I want to run higher boost. But I also want to have options for driability. See my sighn..I made a bet/promice that I was going to get as close or at 500 hp on the 3.1. Sounds like im cocky right. Well im not saying that its going to be making 500 all day long...It will be a dyno queen for that set time. And I know that 14psi isn't going to cut it no matter if my heads flow a millon cfm. Oh...I won't be running stock pipes eather. You could count on a big snail.

By the way...I have those pic of the 65. They'll be on my site soon.

:wink:

The 3bat code is something I've been looking into for a while. You see, my 500whp goal is to do it with all my creature comforts, and do it reliably and consistently.


Mick, this emulator yuo speak of, is that something you have built into GMPCM? I'd be very interested in doing this, instead of going full stand alone.

You da man!!!

Quote from: TurboGTUThe reason for the 3bar code is not just that I want to run higher boost. But I also want to have options for driability. See my sighn..I made a bet/promice that I was going to get as close or at 500 hp on the 3.1. Sounds like im cocky right. Well im not saying that its going to be making 500 all day long...It will be a dyno queen for that set time. And I know that 14psi isn't going to cut it no matter if my heads flow a millon cfm. Oh...I won't be running stock pipes eather. You could count on a big snail.

By the way...I have those pic of the 65. They'll be on my site soon.

:wink:

There might be large enough/high-tech enough-latest technology turbos to do 15 psi of some cold mass air and make close to 500 hp, check the Pressure Ratio of some of the GT Series Turbos from Garrett (if you did this then disregard!!!!!).  Determine the air flow potential of your engine and check these mass-air turbo charts to see where you stand.  As you know big flowing heads, even a cam if you need to squeeze all you can will help.  Next would be 3100 or even better a 3400 intake setup, or Extrude Hone the 3.1L big as safely possible, then match whichever to a larger TB.  Biggest intercooler you can fit in there, top/down not one of those pretty-boy long side to side jobs, then the least amount of bends/gradual bends in the air pipes.  Even short stroke the engine as it is finally getting recognized and showing up on the Net, even on some of the 660/60 degree Forums etc to get more hp this way, and as torque only gets you out of the hole, besides gearing will get you more torque from hp, or if she is a dyno-queen (garage queen after) then dyno sheet hp bragging rights will take to a shorter stroke with impressive results (can anyone say Ferrari and such that do it this way all the time!??!).  As for the 3bar, since I am shooting for kits that more people would be interested in, affordable etc, I am shooting for an easy to run 350 hp setup, very doable since this engine back in the late 70 early 80s and some beyond were running 350 hp at 8,500 rpms and 13.5:1 CR, lasting through a season or more of races, lop off the more destructive high rpms and more than 350 hp is not that far from the limits of the block.  What limits in the block is the bottom webbing where the crank is held in, it can flex which will side load the main bearings, so run some soft bearings to sacrifice and swap them often or some hard ones with more clearance and only run heavy weight oil.  If you stick with a standard bore or only 20 over, should not have to worry as much about cylinder walls holding, but this and everything quoted assumes you don?t knock things too hard when tuning, which can happen if not being very careful.  When getting past 7,000 rpms or so, time to look for better rods and crank, forged pistons are always nice.  At this level of power you are going to have to O-Ring the block, stainless steel wire (email me for specs, though I have 3 spare O-Ring blocks), copper head gasket! Back to a 3 bar, not going to get better driveability, actually less as the resolution drops in your load tables, or you can extend the table ranges but this will be as much fun/work as getting the ignition DIS side satisfied.  I have some contacts that are doing this 3bar to a $8F, might be done but I am not going to give away any of their work/emails, that is for them to decide if they want to do this.  Aftermarket EMS are getting cheaper and better all the time, might find one on eBay or other places, best to get one that has the wide-band input option, really worth it especially since it will log this and all your parameters as well as the real time display, and the to-die-for: enter in you?re A/F ratio and let the EMS do the preliminary work, very slick.

Good luck.

Jeff M

Thank you people, Mick ,and Jeff. Even little info helps. That little stroke trick I had known. Verry sneeky...but the bet never said anything about destroking or TQ. The smaller the stroke..the higher hp you get...but you have to wind the piss out of it. The F-1 cars have 3 liter v8s..but punch out almost 900hp  :o  . Heck..The Taurus SHO is making 400 hp with just a tad of boost. Although...they do have verry good heads. I don't know if I should keep the heads. I can port them to hell..but the valves are going to be a problem. I was even thinking about beeing able to use 3900 heads(the new gen 60 degree engine). They seem to have more port valume and look meaty..and heard about big valves..???. This would of course require more work and prob won't work on this v-block.

Well I'll check with you on the O-rings...prob might need to buy something too. Im in the process of cutting down the flock of cars at home...  :lol:  . This should leave me enough for what I need to get started. I might even sell the whole TGP sys off....don't count on that one too soon though.

Onece I get done with that goal...I'll cut it down to 400 and abouse it on the track..  :twisted: . 500hp on a 3 liter requres alcohol. or race fuel...not verry street friendly.  :wink:

Thanks again.

BTW...you will see this car on vid before I start the 500hp goal. Me and my trans are having a issue...LOL.

So if a 2.3L can make 300hp with 560cfm...(140cfm*4 cylinders=560) on the exhaust(l like going by exhaust)...Then this 3.1 should make 500hp plus with 840 cfm (140cfm*6 cylinders=840cfm). This bastard can flow. Am I right. The numbers assume a 200+ cfm increse due to turbo.

heres why...Finding the peak HP by flowbench results...."Multiply the maximum flow times the power coefficient for that test pressure. For example, if intake system flow is 100 CFM, look in the manual and you?ll find the equation for 25" of water. The power coefficient is 0.27. At 100 cfm the engine could produce 27 horsepower from that cylinder. That is not the power you are guaranteed to get, but everyone will be quite surprised if you get more than that." That sounds right for a N/A engine. How about forced induction? If it flows 100 cfm...I think a turbo would increase it by 200cfm more  (100cfm+200=300).  I would have to plug in the numbers form the turbo(boost) to find out. Im settling for the Gerrett GT37. It has a brauder range of power..my IC would be a 27*7*3. Yea Jeff...no freaking kidding.

I looked at the aftermaket ECMs...They look easy to program...but are "Dumb" programed. Well I don't know how to say it...but if its going to be street driven...then its going to have issues. I would like to stick with the stock ecu. Those aftermaket ecms just cutt off all the "other" tables. Lets say...the fueling tables is shorten to a few tables..and all the highway/tcc/barrow adjusment/acel,decel tables are taken out. Althogh...everything is table-driven on stock ecms. Almost nothing is done algorithmically. Or is that what the after maket ecms rely on...algorithm control? Are you saying algorithm control is better than "lookup table" prom based ecms on a performance standpoint.

What the heck was I thinking...isn't algorithm part of the TGP memcal...what tells the ecm how to read the code...oh man..Late nights.

QuoteThe TGP chip got used by ATR on their super setups running the best times for their collection of show vehicles, sure it made consistency difficult for them, I believe they preferred it since they had the 2,000 page operations manual to fully explain the chip usage. JeffM.

WHERE IS this manual????? Is it a "top secret" manual?

QuoteAbout two years ago, the TGP also got a 3 bar MAP sensor. Probably the only TGP using one with what at least started out as 8F code. I also changed to one VE table, as I did not like the two VE tables that GM uses. I think it is kind of clunky to have to add the two VE values together. ScotSea.

Seems like your the only succesor of the 3bar code. Just by what you said..I can hint on what to mess with for the 3bar to make life easy on me.   :wink:
Well the MASS sensor thing was also awsome. I might try that one too.

Ok so to let the ECM know theres a 3bar map..it needs to know that on the "software" part of the chip?..or can I get away with what I was going to do..Remap the "tune" tables from a 2bar index scale to 3bar tune? Does anyone know what the heck im talking about..cuz sometimes I don't know what Im talking about  :lol:  . Been reading DIY-EFI archives for hrs,days on out, just searching the net. Some even recomend styding the motorola procesor  to know how to "hack" the code better.
I see I can rescale the Timming from Map and rpm..thats no prob. WHere was this issue you had Mick???
I can mod the idle VE
I can mod the table for regular VE
And I can mod the table for Boost Multiply
I don't need to see a change for VE vs rpm cuz its not connected with baro.
I can rescale all the other tables, switching peramiters based on map to be indexed with the 3bar input...but is this all nessisary..or will the ECM subroutines, "software" ruin my day.
All I want to do is mess with the Tune..not the software.
And am I reading this right..this sucker already has altatude compansated tune? How is it if theres only one map sensor? or does it only get that reading on boot?