Tuning my stock TGP and have a few questions about the boost tables.Desired boost pressure base,how does this work.What does it do?Initial value of wastegate duty cycle vs %tps.By increasing %dc does that keep wastegate closed till full boost?If so how much %dc do i need?50% or even 100%(90 TGP).Base pulse width multiplier vs two bar map index.How does this work?Anybody mess with the timing tables?My ATMK bin looks pretty rough.How much do you guys at 180 and 190 kpa?My stock bin is 15.73.What about cruise rpm 1400-2400 30-100 kpa.Ive been messin with the chip making small changes with good success,removed rev limiter in park,ve tables were way off lowered them till i got 124-136 block learn in gear and park.Do you guys use heated o2s.This 8f stuff is really new to me I have tuned my 89 IROC-Z 6e then changed it to 8D.Have any of you guys changed to 58turbo(gn) for more options.I have had my TGP since 1996 and I am second owner.Red with tan leather inteior no cd player 152091 on stock motor.Wont to keep it stock but wont to go faster what do I do?

If you want the easy way out and do not want to tune yourself...contact Jeff M for a pre-built Auto Tranny chip.

If you are serious about tuning your own chip then I recommend getting a datalogger, EPROM burning station, and a way to program your chip at....

There are a few people on here who can help you out and there are people at....who have intense knowledge of tuning.

-Kenny 8)

Thanks for your reply,Kenny.I have a pocket programmer2 and a TGP memcal with an atmel 29c256 eeprom.I use tunerpro for my f-body and recently found a 8fecu at the moates site.Looked over 8fecu and compared with hack,looked good to me.I am trying to raise the boost to 11psi but i need to know how all the boost tables work togher.I know its not as easy as changeing overboost fuel cut off pressure from 8.36 to 11 psi.Thanks Adam.

Just raising the boost can be done, but not recommended without datalogging to see what KR you get. You will need to work with your fuel mapping and timing tables to ensure a safe increase. You can go as aggressive as you please of course...but not a good idea without a good datalogger.

You also need to consider the increased boost/power will hurt your Auto Tranny without proper cooling to it. If you have any slipping or shuttering now increasing boost will make it terminal alot sooner. 8)

Thanks again for your reply!I have a rebuilt 4t60 in the car and still have the old one.If 11psi is to much for stock tranny how much should I run to be safe?TGP has rebuilt slightly ported heads(just under the valve)and new felpro gaskets.I use an auto x-ray for knock counts,retard and block learn and I use a wbo2 for AFR at wot.What i need to know is the routine the ecm follows when it senses boost.What is desired boost pressure base?Is it a look up for boost reduction when knock is sensed?If so it would need to be modifed if you raise boost.Initial value of wg duty cycle vs %tps.Does this keep wg closed till max boost?If so can the 3.1v motor take  11psi of boost at lower rpms(say 100%dc from 0 to 50%tps) to build boost fast and help with lag.Bpw boost multiplier vs 2bar map index.I've played with this one seems like the higher you raise the value the richer it gets.Is that correct.Timing is everything(with life,money and ladies)how much timing you guys giving this 3.1 at wot?Is it true as a rule of thumb for every pound of boost you remove 1-3 degrees of timing.Would love to figure this 8f stuff out any help would be appreciated,thanks Adam

The "DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE BASE" table is used until KR is detected.  If KR exceeds the constant KGEKCENA(stock is 2.81*), then boost is pulled.  Then once KR drops to below constant KGEKCDIS(stock is 1.41*) the "DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE BASE" table is used again.  

To increase the boost, only a couple things have to be done.  First is raising the Overboost Fuel Cut/Fuel Restore values so that you don't get overboost.  Then you just have to massage the "DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE BASE" table to the desired boost levels you want.  I would be careful when adding more boost to low RPMs at low TPS values because you can easily get compressor surge because our turbo is so undersized.  You'll find that the factory chip has a lot of "turbo lag" built into it, and that if you actually watch boost values that you can hit ~4 psi(wastegate actuator setting) almost instantly at WOT.  The factory chip slowly ramps the boost until ~4800 where it hits 7.62 psi.  Like I mentioned I wouldn't add much to low TPS situations.  I've actually lowered most of my values because I run a 5 speed and I can have a low RPM/high load situation that causes compressor surge.  This isn't the case in an auto since you get a downshift if the RPMs are too low.  I basically have mine set up only for full boost at WOT.  I see full boost from 3200 RPMs until redline at WOT and I've never had a bad KR problem.  Don't take that to mean that you won't have any problems as every car is different.  If I were you I would also disable the Torque Management.  Also be wary of Launch mode as that can pull timing if you boost too much for too long when launching.  

It seems that you are an able Tuner, but please be careful when making changes.  Scan, Analyze, Tune, and Rescan... not in any other order.   8)  :P

Thanks for help,skalor.I changed my over boost cutoff to 10.5 and tweeked the desired boost pressure base and the car responded well.I was wondering?If DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE BASE is used till KR is sensed and then PULLS BOOST.What constant tells ecm how much boost to pull?Seems like if you raise the boost you need change how much boost is pulled to be on the safe side.Also,TORQUE MANAGEMENT.How do I disable?Do I zero out tables or is there a constant to change or both.Have any guys disabled EGR and CCP?Maybe less things for ECM to worry about.Would be easy.INITIAL VALUE OF WG DUTY CYCLE VS %TPS.Could you explain how this table works?Seems to me on 90 model it just holds WG shut till full boost but I dont know for sure.LAUNCH MODE SPARK ADVANCE VS RPM AN MAP.Would it be best to zero these entrys out?There seems to be alot of constants for boost.Does any body mess with them?Seems like some of them can be tweeked.Would any body be willing to tell me how much timing there running at 180 an 190 kpa from 2000-6000?Cruise timing?Does any body know if INITIAL SPARK ADVANCE(constant)is added to MAIN SPARK ADVANCE(table)to get total SA?.Seems like to me the BASE COOLANT ADVANCE VS LOAD AN CTS(table)would half to be a factor in total SA.But i dunno.I'm sorry I have so many questions but I like to research things a little.Dont wont to melt my TGP.I've had my TGP almost 10yrs and always felt that there was more to be had out of this car.Now I know there is.THERES BOUND TO BE SOME GOOD TUNERS WHO UNDERSTAND 8F VERY WELL.COULD YOU SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS STORY?Thanks for all ur help and have a wild turkey day. Adam

If there is excessive knock retard...the ECM will just shut off boost compleatly. Or shut off the wastegate selinoid...where just the actuator preset boost is all is boosting. It does not pull boost..it just shuts it off ...it doen't use the boost selinoid anymore.

I desabled TQ MGNT by setting them to the max level like I did to TOP Speed fuel shut off and MAP boost cutoff.

Desired WG Duty Cycle Just tells the ECM to SHOOT for the TAGETED Desired boost vs TPS and RPM. INcrese the DEsired WG DC and you might just overshoot your desired boost pressure when you stab the go pedal. Lower it and it will under shoot it.

Launch mode SA is there to help with the acceleration and the aditinal fuel that is injected when you stab the go pedal. YOu can desable it..but it will feel less responsive to accelerations.

My OFF boost(under 100KPA or 50% map) timming is simmilar and slightly more radical at some points to that of a N/A 3.1 (think $A1 code)...due to my mods. At some points its a little more retarted to help with spool up on my over grown hair dryer.

And everything after that..is just hit and miss with the stock code. SOme liked more timming ..at other points (lower RPM) it wanted less. BUT anything beyond the 170KPA point seemed to want less spark timming with the old TGP turbo. MY new one wanted back the stock chip timming there...and some placed a tad more.

The base spark advance is added to the main spark advance to get total SA. CTS is also factored. Overheat the SOB..and even if the MAIN spark table wants more...CTS will pull out timming after its factored.

BUT in any event. STOCK TGP ..I never recomend advancing timming past 140KPA without some extensive mods to exhaust(turbine). And pull as much timming under 3000rpm. Think boost as NOS...activate boost at low rpms..and your bound to broken parts. Advance timming and you'll hear a baby raddle.
And if you want to increase the lower RPM boost setting or anything lower than 70%TPS..you'll really have a hard time during icy or wet conditions.

Flybynite, welcome to the board!  I'm very impressed by your skills so far, especially in converting the ECM on your F Body.  I think it's safe to say your ECM tuning skills are among the very best here.  There are not very many (any?) people fully tuning the 8F code in terms of complete VE and Spark advance table adjustments.  I think a few of us have done some tweaks but I haven't seen anyone really go nuts.  I know even my aftermarket chip retained a completely unmodified VE table.  So what I'm trying to get at is - I bet if you use your skills and your judgement from your past projects while you tune this, you can go really far!!

As for the wastegate being held shut until redline, you're pretty close.  If you put in a manual boost controller (I run a ball and spring style from www.boostvalve.com), you will shit yourself because it makes the turbo spool up faster than any turbo car I have ever seen.  You'll probably gain 100 LB-FT torque!  (No BS).  I don't know if anyone has accomplished the same type of spool with the stock ECM wastegate solenoid control tables, and had it work.  

I would love to hear about your adjustments to the VE table that you found "way off", I'm just learning chip tuning on mine and would like to make the same improvements.  I did disable EGR on mine BTW.  I also made some great changes to the ridiculous TCC values that came in my chip (it would unlock WAY too easily, felt like the tranny was downshifting with any breath of the throttle), I'll make a post about those next chance I get.

By the way - did you get TunerPro to work successfully with the 8Fturbo.ecu and a successful chip burn?  Are you using real time editing?  I'm about to try it this week :shock:

PS: Read up on my car here http://www.tgpforums.com/tgp/viewtopic.php?t=2803 I have run 12 PSI Boost (seems to be the boost level for max power on this turbo) for about 65,000 miles and it runs well.

Thanks for ur help guys! My ve tables had to be lowered alot to acheive a steady block learn.128 is dead on(most likely not achiveble)but any where bewteen 124 and 134 will do.Block learn is how much the ecm is changeing your tune and only works in CLOOSED LOOP.In OPEN LOOP ur running off your tune so on a highly modifed engine you better be close.Higher the value(134 )leaner you are.Lower the value(124)richer you are.128 perfect.I had to tune the upper and lower ve tables to to get 124-134bl at all rpm and map.Except for WOT then you slip into OPEN LOOP and rely on ur tune.I did not touch the third table BASE PULSE VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY.Just kinda tuned ve tables arround it.I also diabled EGR,CCP,TORQUE MANAGEMENT and LAUNCH MODE.Thanks Turbo GTU for shedding some lite on this and Tookeycat for ur help,although I haven't gotten to the TCC settings yet.I have three sheets of notebook paper(front an back)of all the changes(some good,some BAD) i've made and i'm kinda starting to understand how this 8f code really works(very similar to the f-body stuff).Hasn't been easy.When I'm done I would be willing to share my bin with others if they ask.Tookeycat,YES I got tunerpro to work with 8f ecu and I have bruned  over 50 chips for my TGP.I even checked it with the 8f hack and it looked good to me.Thanks for the help and i'll be back with more questions soon  Adam.

TPS Threshold means what? Obviously TPS is throttle position sensor...but what is the meaning of threshold in the definitions?

Wastegate Duty Cycle means?

Thanks 8)

THRESHOLD is the point of begining.POWER ENRICHMENT TPS THRESHOLD VS COOLANT TEMP for example.The begining of power enrichment vs coolant temp.WASTE GATE DUTY CYCLE.Dont have a for sure answer just what I kinda think.So maybe some of the more advanced tuners will let us know. My guess would be DUTY CYCLE=work being done.WASTE GATE DUTY CYCLE=amount of work the wastegate is doing.Half to do some tinkering to figure how this constant works with the whole boost rotuine.When I get some time I will look through the hack to see if I can come up wit something.Later

I was going back through some older posts to make a compilation of facts we have found so far and read this post and realized I missed it. I did not see an explaination of your question so I figured I would take a stab at it...

Quote from: flybyniteIf DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE BASE is used till KR is sensed and then PULLS BOOST.What constant tells ecm how much boost to pull?

I am looking at the constants and do not see how much boost it alots to pull, but I am making the assumption that if it senses Knock Counts it will open the wastegate for all boost but 4.5psi (wastgate diaphram stock preload) until the Knock Counts drop below your set point.

That is set here:

Boost Reduction Retard Enable Threshold ( = 8.00 counts on AZRC)
Boost Reduction Retard Disable Threshold ( = 4.00 counts on AZRC)

So what I am assuming is at 8 counts of KR it pulls all boost until it sees 4.00 counts or less of KR and gives back the Desired Boost Pressure Base table you have configured. 8)

Quote from: flybyniteTHRESHOLD is the point of begining.POWER ENRICHMENT TPS THRESHOLD VS COOLANT TEMP for example.The begining of power enrichment vs coolant temp.WASTE GATE DUTY CYCLE.Dont have a for sure answer just what I kinda think.So maybe some of the more advanced tuners will let us know. My guess would be DUTY CYCLE=work being done.WASTE GATE DUTY CYCLE=amount of work the wastegate is doing.Half to do some tinkering to figure how this constant works with the whole boost rotuine.When I get some time I will look through the hack to see if I can come up wit something.Later

The duty cycle should be referring to the amount of time that the wastegate solenoid is on/applied.