Well, after following the thread about clogged injectors and an engine that won't start, it got me thinking, I have an engine that idles rough and Ive also replaced nearly every sensor so maybe my injectors were bad.  Tonight I pulled the intake manifold off and tested them and found that 5 of 6 were reading about 14 ohms and my #5 injector was reading 6ohms.  So, I'm thinking I may have a problem ;) ::)  I've also been following the thread about the 3800 injectors and I'm thinking about going that way.  What do you guys think?  What are the actual flow rate of our injectors are they 22#?  And the issues with the fuel rail bolting back down, how big an issue is that?  Maybe some kind of spacing or something? or not bolt the fuel rail back down?

As far as the chip and needing to lean it out a bit, TGPilot, what do you think it would take to convince you to help out with some chip burning? ;)

I have the L36 injectors on my TGP now. They have been great so far. Same flow rate as long as they are off a 95 or newer car (same flow rate, and newer design to get rid of the problems ours have). I cross reffed them from a 96 Buick Riv, and they flow rated the same, and I installed them. Got rid of my no start, rough as hell start. Good luck

Now lemmie get this strait, 95+ 3800 Injectors flow 22# just like ours? And they go right in just fine, and the chip wont need leaned out because its the same flow rate correct? I think i may have a bad injector,and L36 Injectors sound like a great idea

I can tell you now from experience  ;) that the fuel rail is not an issue if you replace the o-rings from the FPR to the fuel rail.  There are 6 of them in all and if you run to your frindly hardware store you can get #83 o-rings from the plumbing dept and you are good to go.  After all the crap I went through trying to get mine back on right I finally replace them and it went back just fine.

Also, I would check your coild as well if you are having hard starts  ;)

the 6 orings, you mean the Injector orings correct? or are there 6 different ones from the FPR to the fuel rail?? that kinda threw me off, sorry. What about the chip tuning tho, iv herd you have to lean it out for them to work
And are the orings 3800 Orings or 3.1 Orings? or does it even matter?

Sorry, I was talking about the ones from the FPR to the fuel rail.  It doesn't matter on which ones I just used #83 that were .5mm thinner than the ones I took off.  As for the injectors you will want to use the ones that come with them otherwise you will not have a good seal and also make sure you use a small amount of oil to coat the o-rings before you put them in or it wont seal well.

Other than that, if you want the top performance out of your new injectors you will want to re-tune the chip.  It's not going to make that big of a difference if you don't but you will probably want to get the most out of them  :icon_biggrin:

I have not retuned my chip (running a Top Gun 160), and it runs flawlessly. that would be a question for the chip experts to answer Jeff M and TGPilot, I am sure there are other chip guys here, I just dont know who they are..

The only problem I have is I broke a vacume line somewhere when I replaced my heater core a week ago. I will never replace that thing again, it will go to a shop LOL. What a pain in the arse that was.

Quote from: pontiac6ksteawd on March 26, 2006, 02:11:46 PM
I have not retuned my chip (running a Top Gun 160), and it runs flawlessly.

From my understanding seat of the pants may feel flawless...but when looked at from a tuners point of view with datalogging software they run a tad rich with the TGP chip settings. Might not be the case in every application...but from what I have heard so far it proves true.

I will be picking up a set this coming week and giving them a go for myself. We shall see. ;)

Let me know what you find out there Kenny. I hope i dont have to retune, as I dont know HOW!!!

My set of Bosch 22lb Injectors should be here today or tomorrow, I'm hoping to get those installed within the week.
I'll post up a datalog for those who are curious.

Edit: Showed up today.  :icon_mrgreen:

Got my injectors installed tonight....
All I have to say is... FINALLY this car is running right!!
In the time we have owned this car, I have never felt it idle soooo smooth at a stoplight. No shakes, jolts, or mis-fires can be felt or heard anymore.

We took it for a spin tonight after it did an idle learn, iit runs like a dream, and can light the tires up like never before!  :icon_mrgreen:

Only problem is a high idle at startup after I did the idle learn. It shot right up to 2500 RPM when I started it and held there. I'm going to do another relearn tomorrow to see if that fixes the problem.

 :icon_mrgreen:

Good to hear Luke

Luke could you post a part number for those injectors for me?  I am going to test mine in the next few weeks and would like to look into those Bosch units.  Thanks.

Hey Luke, does the idle settle down once it's in gear to around 1200?  And once it's warm and you put it in park does it go to 2k?  Just curious as thats what mine is doing as well since I changed my injectors out.

Luke...send me a log and I will look at it tonight. Most likely (as I have learned from Adam ;)) that a high idle can be the result of the ECM opening the IAC to allow for more air because it is running rich. The ECM is trying to compensate for it wanting to bog and die.

tcristea...most chips I have looked at in stock form run the desired idle speed at 900-1000 RPM depending on temp (AZRC is 975RPM). There are a few factors that will increase the desired idle...like A/C on at start, coolant temp at start-up, Primary and/or Secondary fans on at start, low voltage sensed at the battery and quite a few others. What should happen is the desired Idle speed should then be settled down to once it compensates for some of the above factors and level out at 900-1000 RPM. BE AWARE...the tachs on these cars are almost always off! Mine shows 325- 350 RPM higher than actual. GM's allowable error from the factory is +/- 500 RPM. You may want to hook up your logger again to see exactly what RPM you are sitting at.