i got my Turbo Cutlass tuned at Kenny's shop yesterday and OMG...what a difference!! :icon_biggrin:

i had previously dyno'd 227whp & 325wtq at DynoPros's in Denver (a Dynojet machine).  those #s were done using a MBC set at ~12psi.  Kenny has a DynoDynamics machine so the #s aren't directly comparable, but the Rocky Mountain Club GP guys have done comparisons on many of their cars (on the same day) and came to the conclusion that the uncorrected #s are between 38-40% off.  my corrected whp # for altitude after Kenny's tune was 205whp.  using another 24% correction (39% correction total) to account for the difference between the Dynojet at DynoPro's and the DynoDynamics machine at KAZ Motorsports - 254.2whp & 359.6wtq.

the only diffrences to the car since the 1st dyno runs a little over a year ago (besides the obvious chip tuning Kenny did):

- i added Magnecor KV-85 spark plug wires

- i added dual outlet exhaust from my old Turbo STE.  this probably hurt my #s since the mufflers are REALLY old and rusty/clogged stockers.  when i dyno'd at DynoPro's i was using single outlet exhaust but with a straight through glasspack which i think probably flowed alot better than what i have now.

- i deleted EGR but i doubt that really matters as far as #s go.

- i ditched the MBC and used the TGP wastegate solenoid set to 14psi in the chip (i think....)

my baseline run was using the chip i got from god910 (Jay) which Kenny looked at and basically proved it was a nothing but a Jeff M Top Gun chip with the only modification done by Jay was setting a manual trans flag.  also, the baseline run at KAZ Motorsports (not to be confused with the DynoPro's #s) was done using my MBC but i'm not sure what the boost level was due to my Autometer mechanical boost gauge.  it was reading almost 3psi with the key-on-engine-off :icon_confused: the day before the dyno and showing 10psi max boost.  so i think the baseline run was done with around 7-8psi?  maybe Kenny can look up the actual baseline boost level using the MAP voltage as a reference?  regardless, i gained almost 30whp & 35 ft/lbs to the wheels just going from a Jeff M Top Gun chip to Kenny's tune :icon_biggrin:  of course, Kenny's tune was done specifically for MY car whereas Jeff M's Top Gun chip is more of a generic aftermarket TGP chip.

anyways, the car runs soooooo much better now!  the bucking is almost gone complelely - there is still a little but i think that is a combination of slightly leaking injector(s) and just the normal subtle bucking that manual transmission cars can have.

most noticeable improvements by far - every gear is more useable.

- 1st & 2nd gear - no more bucking and definately more traction. i'm not using the MBC anymore....finally using the TGP wastegate solenoid. the TGP T25 spools so fast as it the MBC made it spool just toooo fast resulting in NO traction in 1st or and hardly any in 2nd gear.

- 3rd gear pulls harder, no bucking there at all

- never really did have bucking problems in 4th & 5th, BUT those gears used to be worthless! the car would turn into a a total dog after i got into 4th. as it is now it's a night and day difference.  in 4th gear the car will HAUL ASS right up to 100mph like nothing before. hell i can leave it in 5th and get up to 100mph pretty damn quick now! i haven't been past ~100mph yet.

- OVERALL - the car is soooo much smoother to drive. power isn't 'explosive' like it was with the MBC and that means no wasted power spinning the tires. my oil pressure was slightly higher than it was on the way down and i wondered if it was because of running so rich before was washing the cylinder walls with gasoline? maybe the rings are just sealing better now?  check out the A/F graph that was done with the Jeff M chip when i dyno'd at DynoPros - http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/dyno1.jpg - sub 10:1 A/F as soon as it spooled up!!  jeeez!!!  i think the A/F is now around 12:1

as for gas mileage. this is kind of a hard comparison because of the windy conditions that existed on the way home that weren't there on the way down to Colorado.

on the way there, before the tune, no wind:
Gillette-to-Cheyenne Wyoming - 242 miles & used 9.95 gallons of gas. that's 24.3mpg! ugh!

on the way home, after Kenny's tune, fighting a HEAVY crosswind between Cheyenne & Douglas, WY (over half the trip):
242 miles, used 8.875 gallons of gas. that's 27.3mpg!

if i didn't have 150lbs of tools and other stuff in the car, no wind, and my rear wheel alignment was on i have no doubts this car would be getting 31+ mpg on the highway now. not bad at all for a 240,000 mile engine that's never been rebuilt and is putting down 254whp & 360wtq! the GM employee that assembled my LH0 16 years ago must have done a damn good job  :thumb: fwiw, i'm turning about 2600 RPM @ 75mph in 5th gear.

anyways, i'm very very happy with the car now to say the least!

pics and vids to come....

SWEET!!!!

Kenny's shop is VERY clean and IMO you couldn't possibly ask for a better place to bring your TGP for tuning (or ANY other car for that matter).  i drove 14hrs round trip to do this and it was MORE than worth the drive!

fun times :icon_mrgreen: 







http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/DSC03025.JPG
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http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/DSC03028.JPG
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http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/DSC03045.JPG
http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/DSC03046.JPG

vids to come....i still need to upload them....

some of these vids kinda suck but still fun to watch :icon_wink:

this is the baseline run.  the vid is kind of dark because we did it the night before with the shop doors closed:
http://www.turbosedan.com/vids/MOV03019.MPG (14.1 MB)

this is a driver's side front/corner vid of a WOT pull.  the night before Thomas stopped by (aka GPChief/twalt13 - really nice guy; he owns the black TGP you see in the shop) and helped Kenny set the car up for tuning the next day.  since my coolant overflow tank had to be removed to have access to the ECM for the emulator, Thomas rigged up the Zerex coolant bottle to catch any overflow (as you can see it's not there in the 1st vid).  the baseline run the night before resulted in a little coolant being spilled on the floor  :laugh: :icon_redface:
http://www.turbosedan.com/vids/MOV03034.MPG (8.5 MB)

another driver's side front/corner vid of a WOT pull.  this was the next day so it's brighter.
that's Kenny at work doing the tuning:
http://www.turbosedan.com/vids/MOV03036.MPG (7.6 MB)

this is a rear driver's side/corner view of another WOT pull.  yeah my trunk wasn't latched :laugh:  as you can see my rear alingnment is wayy off.  i'm not going to worry about it unitil i get my new struts and coilover parts installed.  my car is wayyy quieter now with the old crusty TSTE mufflers than it was with the single glasspack i previously had:
http://www.turbosedan.com/vids/MOV03038.MPG (5.7 MB)

driver's side vid of another WOT pull.  i was a little too close hence the audio distortion:
http://www.turbosedan.com/vids/MOV03043.MPG (6.0 MB)

this is a driver's side/corner vid of a dyno pull Kenny was doing for driveability to make sure the bucking problem was fixed (it's my understanding this type of dyno tuning cannot be done on a Dynojet machine):
http://www.turbosedan.com/vids/MOV03044.MPG (6.6 MB)

enjoy :icon_biggrin:

Thats awesome Josh! I wish KAZ motorsports wasn't so far away.

Thanks for the compliments Josh. I was more than happy to get things straight for you.

The chip that was in your car...not so good. It makes no wonder it was still bucking with nothing more than the manual trans flag checked. Changing fan temps does not fix that either! ;)

nice josh!

good #s

Great #'s for a basically "stock" TGP setup. :icon_mrgreen: I think we're going to have quite a few stock turbo cars turning 13 sec ET's in the near future... :icon_cool:

personally i think i'm pushing more hp & tq than that now.  since i've put the MBC back in the car got MUCH quicker since the KAZ Motorsprorts tune.  that's not to say anything bad about Kenny's tune of course.  it was my fault i didn't look more closely at the TGP wastegate solenoid lines i used during the tuning session and varify they weren't leaking :icon_sad:  i really think i would have made closer to 270whp (corrected) with the way it is now but that's all speculation.  at the very least i would have had more area under the curve.

i can't wait to take the Cutlass to a track in VA at low elevation!

Quote from: TurboSedan on November 25, 2006, 12:09:58 AM
personally i think i'm pushing more hp & tq than that now.  since i've put the MBC back in the car got MUCH quicker since the KAZ Motorsprorts tune.  that's not to say anything bad about Kenny's tune of course.  it was my fault i didn't look more closely at the TGP wastegate solenoid lines i used during the tuning session and varify they weren't leaking :icon_sad:  i really think i would have made closer to 270whp (corrected) with the way it is now but that's all speculation.  at the very least i would have had more area under the curve.

i can't wait to take the Cutlass to a track in VA at low elevation!

More torque for sure! You're probably getting damn near a 450 ft-lb spike of torque @ the crank when you mash the go pedal. I think I may have the same problem you had w/ your wastegate solenoid..I just picked up a boost gauge off of a friend to throw in the TGP. It's an autometer gauge, and it was actually accurate in his car, hopefully I don't end up with it reading boost w/ the engine off. :laugh: I'm also going to borrow a scan tool from my friends shop to scan the car sometime this weekend.

FYI, that chip came in the car I bought, Kenny made it.   ;)  I never modified a chip, save for the .bins I sent Davis.

Quote from: god910 on November 27, 2006, 03:11:00 AM
FYI, that chip came in the car I bought, Kenny made it.   ;)  I never modified a chip, save for the .bins I sent Davis.

ahh...Jeff M told me awhile back ("behind closed doors" in a PM of course) that the chip i got from you was a modified Top Gun chip and that you admitted you had sold some copied TG chips and modified TG chips.  so i guess he was full of it?

as far as Kenny varifying the chip (that i got from you) was a TG chip...i'm not sure what he was comparing it to to come to that conclusion.  maybe he was just going by the what i told him (which was what Jeff M told me).

NO WAY is that chip that was in Josh's car anything I put together. It only had 23 changes from a TG chip. Even back in the day when I first started with the 5-speed chips the TG with minor changes would not work. It ran like ass and would not allow boost. Actually the only thing I can thank Mick for was helping me to get the car to run decent and there was NO relation to the TG chip when we finished. If you laid it down to an AZRC chip it had similarities...but then again Jeff M chips have a very close relation to the AZRC chips. :icon_rolleyes:

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.  And it seems like Jeff might have been trying to remove Kenny from the loop.  (Mighty noble of you to lie about me Jeff.  :icon_lol:)  I really REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to bring this back up, but this is THE chip that started the Kenny/Jeff war.  Jeff always claimed that Kenny stole the chip, and just changed a few things to make it work with the manual.  The only stuff I ever changed from the chip that I got from my car (Which I bought from a kid named Josh he was on w-body, but I can't remember what his s/n was) was stupid stuff like EGR, fan on/off setpoints, BFC if requested, and top speed boost cut or whatever it was.  Both my cars broke before I started tuning  :laugh:. 

Whoops, replied at the same time.   :laugh:  Kenny, look at it.  I don't know what to tell you unless it got damaged, it's the VERY MEMCAL that my car ran brilliantly off of.  Which is why I don't have a clue why it wasnt' working on Josh's car.  I plucked it from my ECM and mailed it to him.   :icon_question:  And I do still have the .bin  and I can run a compare if you'd like.  Maybe some 1's and 0's got kicked around.   :laugh: