I had to buy new guidplates a few years ago for a 3.1L.  I wanna say they were like $4-5 a piece from the dealer.  So, $24-30 for a set of 6. 

Quote from: Robby1870 on November 23, 2006, 12:45:12 PM
I had to buy new guidplates a few years ago for a 3.1L.  I wanna say they were like $4-5 a piece from the dealer.  So, $24-30 for a set of 6. 

cool thanks Robby.  i'll just plan on doing that then.  hopefully the '94/'95 3100 pushrod guidplates aren't much more expensive.

Josh, I think one of my friends has a set of 3100 guide plates laying around...I'll check with him when I get at chance. If not, I can get you some from a junkyard here next time I go.

Quote from: mfewtrail on November 24, 2006, 11:57:36 PM
Josh, I think one of my friends has a set of 3100 guide plates laying around...I'll check with him when I get at chance. If not, I can get you some from a junkyard here next time I go.

awesome, let me know

thanks Matt

I just took the time and a couple of round files (course / Fine) and made my slots bigger.  I made sure there was at least 1/4 inch free play and called it good.  I'll let you know if there was any ware when I tear my motor apart.

just wondering, is it absolutely necessary to remove the intakes to swap these in?  if i can get by without doing that that would be great.  i would probably just remove the alternator & bracket, undo the dogbones and pull the engine forward, and then get the MAF sensor, canister purge solenoid, and throttle cables out of the way.

also, does the lifter have to be on the base circle of the camshaft (valve closed) when torquing the rocker arm nut down to 18 ft/lbs?  or does it even matter?

TIA, i want to get this done before i head to the strip in April.  i'll probably be doing it the same time i install the injectors, so i guess the plenum would be off anyway possibly giving me some more room to work with.

Quote from: TurboSedan on February 16, 2007, 04:37:29 AM
also, does the lifter have to be on the base circle of the camshaft (valve closed) when torquing the rocker arm nut down to 18 ft/lbs?  or does it even matter?

YES! Piston must be at TDC otherwise the increased spring tension won't give you a proper torque reading and the rocker will be loose once the spring tension's less (ie when the cam rotates). This parts a huge pain in the ass and once you do it once you should go through it again and make sure you didn't miss anything before you put it all back together.

I'm sure there are ways to do it with the LIM still on, but most of the rear bank is a bitch to reach and I couldn't even get a ratchet on a coupe of the nuts because the LIM was in the way. Had to take mine off.

Quote from: GutlessSupreme on February 16, 2007, 08:24:44 AM

Quote from: TurboSedan on February 16, 2007, 04:37:29 AM
also, does the lifter have to be on the base circle of the camshaft (valve closed) when torquing the rocker arm nut down to 18 ft/lbs?  or does it even matter?

YES! Piston must be at TDC otherwise the increased spring tension won't give you a proper torque reading and the rocker will be loose once the spring tension's less (ie when the cam rotates). This parts a huge pain in the ass and once you do it once you should go through it again and make sure you didn't miss anything before you put it all back together.

that is what i did before when i replaced the LIM gasket and then had to do it again  when i broke the timing chain.  i made sure the lifter was on the base circle before torquing the rocker nut.  i just wanted to be sure that was required with the 1.6 rocker/pivot balls.

Quote from: GutlessSupreme on February 16, 2007, 08:24:44 AM
I'm sure there are ways to do it with the LIM still on, but most of the rear bank is a bitch to reach and I couldn't even get a ratchet on a coupe of the nuts because the LIM was in the way. Had to take mine off.

yeah, i'll just take it off.  been there done that before anyway.  oh well.

thanks Tony

It's just plain out easier to remove the lower intake to do the rear rocker arms Josh. I swapped mine without removing the upper or lower intakes, but that was a total pain in the ass to be honest(it was rough getting on those center rocker arms, I had to do some clever rigging with a variety of tools I have here :laugh:).

EDIT #??(I lost count). I edited this because I thought I sounded like a smart ass with one of the replies I had typed up here earlier. :icon_redface:

Anyways, our rocker arms are not adjustable(they're a "net lash" setup), so it isn't necessary to rotate the engine so that the lifter sits on the base circle of the camshaft before torquing the rocker arms. Simply remove the old rockers, slap the new ones on and torque them to spec(18 ft-lbs). You'll notice that when you get to 18 ft-lbs, that the rocker arm nuts will have bottomed out on their corresponding studs. I can post videos of my engines running perfectly if you guys need anymore reassurance about this... :laugh: or you can search around w-body, 60*V6, etc. as this has been covered quite a few times.

Quote from: mfewtrail on February 16, 2007, 08:24:19 PMAnyways, our rocker arms are not adjustable(they're a "net lash" setup), so it isn't necessary to rotate the engine so that the lifter sits on the base circle of the camshaft before torquing the rocker arms. Simply remove the old rockers, slap the new ones on and torque them to spec(18 ft-lbs). You'll notice that when you get to 18 ft-lbs, that the rocker arm nuts will have bottomed out on their corresponding studs. I can post videos of my engines running perfectly if you guys need anymore reassurance about this... :laugh: or you can search around w-body, 60*V6, etc. as this has been covered quite a few times.

If you say so.. but I'm telling you mine would end up loose if the piston wasn't at TDC.

Quote from: mfewtrail on February 16, 2007, 08:24:19 PM
Anyways, our rocker arms are not adjustable(they're a "net lash" setup), so it isn't necessary to rotate the engine so that the lifter sits on the base circle of the camshaft before torquing the rocker arms. Simply remove the old rockers, slap the new ones on and torque them to spec(18 ft-lbs). You'll notice that when you get to 18 ft-lbs, that the rocker arm nuts will have bottomed out on their corresponding studs. I can post videos of my engines running perfectly if you guys need anymore reassurance about this... :laugh: or you can search around w-body, 60*V6, etc. as this has been covered quite a few times.

just wanted to say that way works fine (not that i doubted you :laugh: )  i tightened them all down to spec with no regard to camshaft position.  i could feel each one bottom out before i hit 18 ft/lbs  :thumb: 

i just started it up for the first time since May.  started right up and seems to run great.  new owner takes it tomarrow and then its replacement will be in my garage on Monday lol.  i didn't bother installing the 1.6 rockers since i still didn't have the guideplates.  oh well.  thanks again Matt.

yeah I'll confirm what Matt said there.  During my rebuild the manual stated 18 ft lbs was the correct force on the rocker nuts. 

Compared to the 86 4.3 C1500 engine I rebuilt, the TGP rockers were simple.   Those needed adjustment.  Our 3.1s do not require that. 

great right up!!

Quote from: mfewtrail on February 16, 2007, 08:24:19 PM
It's just plain out easier to remove the lower intake to do the rear rocker arms Josh. I swapped mine without removing the upper or lower intakes, but that was a total pain in the ass to be honest(it was rough getting on those center rocker arms, I had to do some clever rigging with a variety of tools I have here :laugh:).

EDIT #??(I lost count). I edited this because I thought I sounded like a smart ass with one of the replies I had typed up here earlier. :icon_redface:

Anyways, our rocker arms are not adjustable(they're a "net lash" setup), so it isn't necessary to rotate the engine so that the lifter sits on the base circle of the camshaft before torquing the rocker arms. Simply remove the old rockers, slap the new ones on and torque them to spec(18 ft-lbs). You'll notice that when you get to 18 ft-lbs, that the rocker arm nuts will have bottomed out on their corresponding studs. I can post videos of my engines running perfectly if you guys need anymore reassurance about this... :laugh: or you can search around w-body, 60*V6, etc. as this has been covered quite a few times.

I will also vouch for this being true.  I did the 1.6 rocker swap this spring without rotating the cam, just bolted in the new rockers.  I drove the car 1,043.5 miles this last summer with no problems.

Just a quick question. If I do the 1.6 rocker swap on my 89 TGP and go with the LS1 springs update and cam change, will I still need to modify my guide plates? Also, does anyone know where I can get a set of the 1:6 rockers and if so how much? Thanks for all the useful info I find on these forums. How anybody figured this stuff out in the first place is amazing. Who woulda thunk it! :icon_razz: